964 Cab with 993 Targa top?

996GT2_2002 · 05:24 PM

Hello,

I have a 1991 964 C4 Cabriolet and the roof is worn out, leaky and just ugly looking. I saw on ebay a Strosek 993 Targa style top that fits 964's.

CLICK HERE

The problem I have with that item though, is that there isn't any rear passenger or drivers side window. It's just a flat ugly painted panel. I was thinking I could buy that and have a body shop cut out a window and get a 993 window.

My question is though, since that seems like a fairly expensive job ontop of buying the roof, would a stock 993 Targa top, like this one HERE fit on a 964?. I read on the ebay site that the latches needed to be changed to fit the Strosek 993 Top onto 964's, so could the same be easily and inexpensively done so that I can use the 993 Targa top on my 964 Cabriolet?

Thanks for your time!
Steve

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

The 993 "Targa" top is a roof with a sliding glass panel. Major surgery required AFIK. Did you see the three motors in the picture? They have to live somewhere too.

996GT2_2002 · 05-27-2009, 06:00 PM

I wouldn't mind having the top glass immobile. The thing I'm concurred about is whether or not it would fit the 964, since the Strosek does fit both the 993 and 964, would the same work for a 993 top. Do you think it'd be easier to buy the Strosek top and get a window cut into it, or get the 993 Targa top to replace the Cab top ( if it will fit). I'm not sure if it does or not, do you?

Also, I think those motors in the back are for the back windshield wiper.

group911@aol.co · 05-27-2009, 06:30 PM

If I remember correctly, the 993 targa top is a bolt on so in theory, it might work especially if you don't care if it opens. This should be interesting.
You might try calling Todd at LA Porsche. He should at least know if the windshield post is the same.

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 996GT2_2002

Also, I think those motors in the back are for the back windshield wiper.

At least one of them is for the glass, probably two.

hifeverz · 07-26-2009, 08:41 PM

I am NOT a convertible type of person and when I had problems with top opening and closing I decided to changeover. I am NOW doing a cab to 993 Targa conversion and it is a bolt on item. I have removed most of the 993 power top parts. I've been collecting Targa parts to complete this project. The 2 motors(that sit in the rear deck) are for the movable glass (Left and Right) power cables. The 3rd motor is for the power blind or shade. I'm planning on getting the glass to retract/extend though if I have problems with the cables and/or logic circuitry (brain) cooperating, I may leave the glass closed/sealed and only power the blind. The door glass and frames are not the same as cab and I had to purchase those separately. It appears not too difficult a project only steady $$ toward completion.

Hz

RichieRoo · 02:08 PM

Hi hifeverz

I'm doing the same conversion (993 targa onto 964 Cab). Wondered how
you were getting on. My usual forum (Rennlist) doesn't have any posts
regarding the conversion.

I just trial fitted mine today - removed cab roof completely and lifted new
roof on. It's not a million miles away, but I'm struggling with the last 10mm
all round.

So, two quick questions:

Firstly, I'm assuming the rear quarter glass is meant to sit outside the
existing vertical lip on the top of the cars rear wing? (see photos)

Secondly, should the roof bolt straight up to the existing window frame -
looking from the inside, it all appears the right shape, but outside, the glass
is about 15mm short of the windscreen frame. Is this meant to be filled
with a rubber seal?

Thanks for your help.

Rich

hifeverz · 09-06-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieRoo

Hi hifeverz

So, two quick questions:

Firstly, I'm assuming the rear quarter glass is meant to sit outside the
existing vertical lip on the top of the cars rear wing? (see photos)

Secondly, should the roof bolt straight up to the existing window frame -
looking from the inside, it all appears the right shape, but outside, the glass
is about 15mm short of the windscreen frame. Is this meant to be filled
with a rubber seal?

Thanks for your help.

Rich

I have not installed as yet though I did mount the roof, as u, on the car.

Observations: the roof cannot sit outside the vertical lip (your pic as on the RED outline), as u will notice the bolt holes line up at the quarter window (just behind the seat belt anchor mount). I have the trim pieces that hide the gap between the quarter window to the body. These do NOT line up to the door trim if u were to mount the roof on the RED Line u so indicated. I will need to grind down the vertical lip that the roof now sits on and butt weld the inner & outer panels. this will allow the roof to directly sit on the body.

Gap at Header: The roof at the front header has a thick seal/gasket between to close that gap. I have installed that seal to verify that.

Gap at Rear Roof: And, I have ordered the rear gasket (rear glass roof to body filler) and will need to see what needs to be done in addition to that gasket to fill that gap.

Gap at Door: I have acquired the door window frames as u notice that (911/964 cab/targa frames) the existing are too short leaving a large gap. Also there is an additional gasket outlining the top of the door frame which also adds to closure of the gap. Modification to coupe door frames may work as the 993 Targa roof outline matches that of a 911/964 coupe.

Upon arrival of the rear seal, I can assess what else needs to be done.

Hz
06sep09

RichieRoo · 09:59 AM

Hi there

Thanks for the reply... it feels better to know I'm not the only one mad enough
to try this

Your right about the lip... I came to the same conclusion this morning and
began grinding. I also plan to weld them, but for the time being, I have just
removed a section (see photo).

The windscreen edge is making more sense... I have found 4 small threaded
holes which align with the leading edge of the roof. I tried some bolts -
they work fine. My tin work is a little bent, so getting the roof perfectly flush
will be a pain.

As for the seals; I guess the windscreen frame one runs right down both sides?
(i.e it's big and expensive

)

I don't have any of the seals. Were they extortionately expensive?

Door frames... funny you should mention coupe versions... I have a set sitting
next to me. I purchased them when I planned to weld on a coupe roof. I think
the trailing edge may not work with the big "B" pillar seal.

The window glass shape looks similar to the aperture - I don't suppose I could
modify the lift mechanism to give it that extra inch?

Thanks again for your response - keep me informed of any developments.

Rich

hifeverz · 09-06-2009, 10:42 AM

Rich:
You know I went to one of those "Good Guys" hotrod meets and the mods these people do to those cars makes this project look like a "walk in the park".

Here are some more comments . . . :

SEALS: the top, rear base and door seals are costly unless u can find used . . . though near impossible to find used. The last resort is Sunset Porsche in Oregon . . . the lowest dealer prices in the nation that I've found.

The top seal will cover the gap and the existing cab seal may be modified at the door to meet the roof drains on both sides. Once completed and weather sealed, The interior garnish piece ( . . . that the sunvisors mount to . . . ) will cover the gap.

Door Frame: The coupe frame horizontal section may be cut at the vertical frame and finished with the rubber piece that is used on your cab/targa end piece. Coupe glass will be used as this appears to have the same top contour needed. Vertical adjustment may be adjusted to close gap (I think). [note: the hints above were the steps I was going to go before I acquired 993 Targa door frames/glass]. The door glass guide at the door handle end is the same as 993 Targa having a 964 part number . . . so that can be left in place.

Should u have any developments/short cuts/discoveries/parts leads(that u will not use), please let me know as I will return the favor.

Good Luck.
Hz

RichieRoo · 07:11 AM

Hi Hz

Bet those "Good Guys" don't have to use their hotrods to get to work
every day though

.

Yesterday I ground down the rest of the lip which falls outside the window line.

I welded most of the seam - although in one section the gap was too big
(and my welding ability to small

) to join the two. I put a layer of fibreglass
and resin over the smoothed weld and then a layer of body filler.

I plan to get the whole car resprayed when all the bodywork projects are finished,
but to protect the bare metal for now, I coated the area with a rust inhibiting primer
and then sprayed a quick coat of colour over the top (the photo shows the paint
before any clear coat).

Found http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.php/993_-_Targa_Roof_Operation_Outline which explains the drive mechanism. It looks incredibly complex.

It looks like my roof may have some parts missing... I am seriously considering
removing the electric drive mechanism and creating a manually opening roof.

As for the side windows - I contacted AutoGlass (here in the UK) and asked for
a quote on the two panes... they had coupe and cabriolet but not targa. Even if
I found some targa glass I'd be worried if I had to replace it in future, so, as the
gap is pretty small, I have decided to fabricate new moldings to descend from
the roof.

There is an arching, extruded aluminum strip which retains the rubber over the
door glass - I intend to use this as reference for the curve and use the existing
bolt holes.

Rich

hifeverz · 09-10-2009, 07:55 PM

Rich:
Yeh . . . I didn't know yours is a daily driver!? My project is a part time casual event/year around, once in awhile deal. And I'm still waiting for the dealer part to arrive before I continue.

Anyway you seem to be making progress. When you ground down the lip(on the left and right sides) did the top set down evenly? . . . how did the rear fit to the body once the sides were modified??What were you planning for the rear (roof to body) sealing? Were you planning to get a factory gasket? . . .or?

The top transport device complicated as you've discovered and that is why I may leave mine sealed with just the shade being powered. There is a yard here that has a Targa top brain in case u do not already have one. Also interested to know how u plan on making it a manual top? . . . disengaging the drive cables will cause the window to be too loose along the travel. You may have to devise a sleeve or something to take the slack on both sides.

let me know how you're progressing . . . and nice photos you've been adding here. I'm sure others will attempt this same conversion.

Hz

9magazine · 09-11-2009, 01:48 PM

Everyone,

I think this would make for a great article for the magazine... Where are you guys located?

Brian
www.9magazine.com

RichieRoo · 09-13-2009, 11:58 AM

Hi Brian

Sounds good to me.

The only thing is, this project may take some time to complete and I wasn't
planning on getting the paintwork prestine until all of the bodywork was done
(planning quite a bit more after the roof).

I'll send you some high resolution shots once the roof is done and you can see
if they're worthy of your magazine

To answer your question regarding location; I'm in Surrey, in the UK.

Regards

Rich

9magazine · 09-13-2009, 06:34 PM

Rich,

Sweet take your time, maybe we could do several updates over time on the project for readers to follow.

Brian
www.9magaizne.com

hifeverz · 09-14-2009, 07:52 PM

Magazine?
. . . I 'm wondering how many would be interested on such a conversion . . . an insult to a true Porschephile (especially 993 Targa owners)?? And besides others have done these as I've been told in the Florida and SoCal areas.
My own car will progress in the next month as the parts ordered are coming from Germany. Photos may follow if others would be interested, as I was keeping my own project quiet.

Hz

9magazine · 09-14-2009, 08:33 PM

Never know when someone else might want to tackle a project like this in the future!

Brian
www.9magazine.com

hifeverz · 05-01-2010, 11:48 PM

CAB to 993 TARGA CONVERSION UPDATE:

Quick History: My car started out as a 1974 Targa. Conversion done years ago to a 993 Power Top Cabriolet. Grew bored with the Cab Top and proceeded to convert to a 993 Targa Top.

Last note I was awaiting and gathering parts for the conversion (as budget would allow) as well as weather conditions would also be better.

The photos show progress made to date with wiring and interior parts installation still outstanding. All 993 Targa glass, door frames, seals have been completed and painted.

I'll post when completed with more pics.

NOTE: The 993 Power Top Cabriolet Set Up (Grey Canvas Top, Transmissions, Linkages, Wiring, Motors, Control Unit and more is FOR SALE, if anyone is interested.
Hz

RichieRoo · 05-04-2010, 06:35 AM

Nice work!

Mine is very slowly coming together too.

What do you plan to do about drainage?

The two pipes at the back, connected to the internal roof gutter, need somewhere to go.
Currently, I have two rubber pipes on them which drain down under the side windows,
but this is just temporary.

Keep up the good work.

Rich

hifeverz · 05-04-2010, 12:48 PM

Rich:
I decided to proceed further as the car sitting in the garage unfinished is waste of space and ill use.

As far as the drains go, I added extension hosing on both sides and drilled 2 holes on the rear deck to pass the hoses through. I will "T" the 2 hoses in the engine bay and pipe pass through the engine sheet metal to body gasket for draining to road. (see pics)

Don't let your project sit too long as u will lose interest and end up selling it off. Those 993 Targa roofs are a rare find and will easily sell if need be.

Hope this helps,
Thanks,
Hz