Abandoning Toyo RA-1 for MPSCs?

[jimbauman]

I hear a lot of people are abandoning the Toyos in favor of Michelins.... what's up with that?
JB

[juanbenae]

i have read in GRMS that the RA-1 may start being manufactured again for the spec miata set. as i understand it they are less than pleased with the 888 & that has gotten toyos attention. maybe they will be bringing back portions of that line of tires? i have heard that the 888's have a much smaller sweet spot regarding car set up & pressures than the ra1 did. we can only hope that the RA1 is brought back. if a couple of the toyo spec series start to look elsewhere for their spec tire that might get toyo really thinking.

i overpaid for a set of 245.16 RA1 to match a set of fronts i already had early this season and am hoping that they come back before i need to make another choice on tires. Would a company like toyo admit a mistake by bringing back a tire they phased out because the tire they replaced with was a bust?

what have you guys heard or thought on this? i hope this remains on topic enough for jims thread

[ErVikingo]

Remember New Coke.......

[JeremyD]

In response to the initial posting - probably because Toyo RA-1 WAS going the phase out this tire - NOW they are going to continue production - and the good news is that the 225/50/16 and 245/45/16 combinations will be continued. I know of a few that changed from Toyo R888 to the MPSC's because as Car311 said - the R888's had such a narrow sweet spot. The R888's are not that great of a rain tire where the RA-1's were used as a rain tire extensively.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/
Toyo Tires® Renews Longtime Sponsorship with NASA
August 11, 2009 7:48 AM — The National Auto Sport Association announces it is renewing its longtime partnership with Toyo Tires; extending its contract for an additional three years beginning January 1, 2010. As a part of this extension, all NASA spec tire classes will be going back to the Toyo Proxes RA1 as the required tire. This will become effective January 1, 2010 with a three-weekend grace period to allow the use of the previously allowed R888 tires. “This move was made in response to customer input, and we hope the racers will be pleased by this announcement. The RA1 has become a favorite amongst many NASA racers and has proven itself for speed, consistency, and longevity,“ said NASA’s National Chairman Ryan Flaherty.

NASA Competition Racing has a wide variety of road racing classes designed to welcome both entry level and seasoned racers who wish to compete wheel to wheel. Toyo Tires’ Proxes® RA1™ is an R-compound, street legal competition radial and is the spec tire for several classes in this exciting program.

“NASA and Toyo Tires have enjoyed a successful relationship for 14 years and we look forward to adding another three years to that run,” said Jerry Kunzman NASA's Executive Director. “In our opinion Toyo has always had the best interest of their customers in mind so it's great to see the relationship continue in this manner.”

“Toyo Tires is proud to continue our sponsorship of NASA road racing,” said Stan Chen, manager of events and motorsports, Toyo Tire U.S.A. Corp. “Our Proxes RA1 has long been popular with amateur and professional racers and is a great fit with this exciting series.”

Great for vehicles ranging from sport compacts to European and American muscle machines, the Proxes RA1 is cost-effective by delivering excellent wear and winning consistency on the track. NASA classes using the Proxes RA1 include: American Iron, Camaro-Mustang Challenge, Factory Five Challenge, Honda Challenge, Spec 3/Spec e30 (BMW), Spec Focus, Spec Miata, and 944-spec.

[juanbenae]

[redranger]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

In response to the initial posting - probably because Toyo RA-1 WAS going the phase out this tire - NOW they are going to continue production - and the good news is that the 225/50/16 and 245/45/16 combinations will be continued. I know of a few that changed from Toyo R888 to the MPSC's because as Car311 said - the R888's had such a narrow sweet spot. The R888's are not that great of a rain tire where the RA-1's were used as a rain tire extensively.

I've been looking for the RA-1 in 225/50/16 and several dealers told me it's no longer be produced. So, I called Toyo headquarters yesterday and they confirmed that this size tire is being discontinued because of lack of demand. Not sure where you heard they were continuing this size, but the company says it isn't. I'll be going to the 888s as a result.


As for the OP suggesting the switch to Michelins from Toyo, I've heard the opposite. One guy indicated the toyos warmed up much faster than the toyos. Find the sport cups in 16" is near impossible now, another reason to look at Toyo. Still, there are tons of people that swear by the SCs.

[Tom W]

Most the guys in PRC's Spec911 class use RA-1s. The 888 are despised as a poor imitation. Our understanding is that Toyo has assured NASA the sizes used will be available next year.

[175K911]

Lots of RA1 sizes in the pipeline. My brother in law just showed up at the track a week ago with brand new RA1's- 235/40-17, 255/40-17 on my sister's 911. Looks like Toyo is going to use the NT01 carcas and reintroduce the RA1 for a year is select sizes. I've got my 17" set already on order. Now I can turn the barely used R888's into the only thing they're good for- tire swings for the kids.

[JP911]

Glad they're bringing them back in our sizes, but you've got to wonder what the pricing is going to be like.

[trekkor]

Is there any guarantee they will be the same as before?

Or are they just going to stamp out RA-1 tread patterns in 888 blanks?


KT

[SandyI]

What about the 205/15 RA1's? That's the size i need for my 911E.

[175K911]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Is there any guarantee they will be the same as before?

Or are they just going to stamp out RA-1 tread patterns in 888 blanks?


KT

From what I've been told, the current Nitto NT01 is the same carcas as the old RA1 so the basic construction has continued under the Nitto name. So my knowledgable source said that it was a simple matter to recreate the old RA1 again. My BIL paid about the same price for the RA1's as he'd been paying for BFG G-Force, and they were shaved.

[JeremyD]

Originally Posted by redranger

I've been looking for the RA-1 in 225/50/16 and several dealers told me it's no longer be produced. So, I called Toyo headquarters yesterday and they confirmed that this size tire is being discontinued because of lack of demand. Not sure where you heard they were continuing this size, but the company says it isn't. I'll be going to the 888s as a result.


As for the OP suggesting the switch to Michelins from Toyo, I've heard the opposite. One guy indicated the toyos warmed up much faster than the toyos. Find the sport cups in 16" is near impossible now, another reason to look at Toyo. Still, there are tons of people that swear by the SCs.

Sorry - I read on the S2000 site that they were going to be offered (as that's a size that the s2000 uses) I don't know for sure - but heard the same exact thing that Ed heard - Carcass and compound of the NT01 = that it never really went away.

[175K911]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

Sorry - I read on the S2000 site that they were going to be offered (as that's a size that the s2000 uses) I don't know for sure - but heard the same exact thing that Ed heard - Carcass and compound of the NT01 = that it never really went away.

That's why I'm on my 3rd set of NT01's- they behave just like the old RA1 when shaved. But nothing like the original. The RA1 was always respectable in the wet, the Nitto is not.

And FWIW- Nitto is a subsidiary of Bridgestone which is why the RA1 carsass morped into the NT01. Same tire, different tread cut, very small difference it rubber compound. Oh, and cheaper too.

[KTL]

I'd not abandon the RA-1 in favor of MPSC's. The Michelin is being discontinued for a new tire (Tire Rack recently had a very nice discount going on the MPSC), so developing your car for these would not be a good move IMO.

How can the NT-01 be based on the RA-1 if the NT-01 is not able to be flipped inside out like the RA-1? I would think once the NT-01 is shaved or worn, the tread pattern is meaningless and you should be able to flip them? Actually the tread pattern for any directional tire is only meaningful in wet conditions. Otherwise it doesn't matter if you run a directional tire "backwards."

[WestonP22]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Is there any guarantee they will be the same as before?

Or are they just going to stamp out RA-1 tread patterns in 888 blanks?


KT

We've been told that RA-1's are coming back for real. The R888's were clearly a massive failure for spec tire classes, and a lot of people are extremely dissatisfied and pissed off at both Toyo and NASA. If they were to pull a BS deceptive move like throwing an RA-1 tread pattern on a R888, they would bring one hell of a ****storm down on themselves, and they could count on losing all of their motorsports business. NASA, and other clubs, may have sold them a monopoly on the spec tire classes, but that won't matter when the racers decide that they've had enough and go spend their money elsewhere. All it means is that those clubs will lose business too, as they deserve to. They're both on very thin ice, and lots of people are really fed up with the whole situation, so it's only going to take one or two more straws to break the camel's back here. The RA-1's coming back is a very good move, but it's going to take some time for the wounds to heal.

[175K911]

Originally Posted by KTL

I'd not abandon the RA-1 in favor of MPSC's. The Michelin is being discontinued for a new tire (Tire Rack recently had a very nice discount going on the MPSC), so developing your car for these would not be a good move IMO.

How can the NT-01 be based on the RA-1 if the NT-01 is not able to be flipped inside out like the RA-1? I would think once the NT-01 is shaved or worn, the tread pattern is meaningless and you should be able to flip them? Actually the tread pattern for any directional tire is only meaningful in wet conditions. Otherwise it doesn't matter if you run a directional tire "backwards."

It's the tread pattern Kevin. And only in the wet. I've really liked the NT01 as my replacement for the RA1 this season but will go back to the RA1 in a heartbeat in the spring. But I like being able to swap my front tires left to right on a daily basis at the track with the NT01, which you technically aren't supposed to do with the directional RA1. At least until either of them are shaved or worn down to 2/32.

[RichMink76]

I just spoke with one of the motorsports marketing guys at Toyo and they are bringing back the RA-1 for the spec classes. I inquired if 225-50-16's and 245-45-16's are on that list and the answer was YES. He said they won't be available until January though.

Rich

[Jack Olsen]

I flipped my NT01s left to right without any issues.