Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R opinions?

[michael lang]

My first experience with intermediates was about 8-9 years ago and I do remember how good the RA-1s used to be. If back then I knew what I was doing, I can't even imagine what I would have been able to do in my car. As those wore out, it was suggested to me by an instructor to go back to street tires for the track and run those out. I really liked the RE11s. When I went back to intermediates I put on a set of R888s because of all the discussion regarding the RA1 now no longer being the tire it once was so I trusted what the opinions were. Given the available options for a dual purpose type tire, I believe the triple 8s are the best of the group. Forget about specs, ratings and all the manufacturers claims. In real world conditions, the Toyos have held up for me in all types of conditions whether it be rain, back road honk, in town driving and at the track. I have been totally happy with that brand.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Driven97

Tire manufacturers can list the treadwear lower but not higher than they actually test. But since they do their own testing, not an independent agency, true the numbers mean little.

If you end up trying one of the newer tires, let us know how they go.

I read an article a couple of years ago that pointed out that when some race organizations out in rules requiring a minimum tread wear of 200, many tires magically went from 160 ratings to 200 ratings over night

[gliding_serpent]

We need more articles like the road and track "monsters of grip". You really need a blind side by side comparison of the many options. No test is perfect, but it helps.

[Driven97]

Grassroots Motorsports does some pretty good tire tests, but they tend not to publish them online.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Yes, they usually do one or two tests per year. Some tests will feature R-comp tires, some will feature street-class tires. They do a quantitative evaluation and a qualitative evaluation, and the test setup seems to be very good. I'm not sure if the information winds up in their on-line archived articles, though.

--DD

[gliding_serpent]

I think i have read one or two grassroots articles. Will search

[gliding_serpent]

2015: grassroots likes the re71r and bfg rival s. http://classicmotorsports.com/media/files/podcast/audio/grm_podcast_tiretest.mp3 Good general discussion, but does not cover true r comps.

2014: extreme performance summer: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=197

2010 r comp comparo. R888 and sport cup here. http://m.caranddriver.com/features/track-tire-test-bfgoodrich-toyo-michelin-and-yokohama-tires-rated-feature

Trying to find the article:

Grassroots Motorsports does comparison tests with DOT racing tires on an autox course. The Kumho Ecsta V710 is king, followed by the Hoosier A6, BFG R1, Nitto NT01, Hankook Ventus Z214, Hoosier R6 and Toyo R888. They haven't tested the Yokohama A048, Kumho Ecsta V700 or Kumho V70 Victoracer, at least not lately. I don't think they ever tested the Michelin PSC, but autoxers don't like them. A German magazine compared the Kumho Ecsta V700, Michelin PSC and Pirelli P-Zero Corsa. They declared the Kumho the winner. If you don't mind having a tire that has just two grooves and want the absolute grippiest DOT tire, get the Kumho Ecsta V710. If you want a tire with more grooves that can be used in the rain, it gets more complicated. The grippiest is probably the Kumho Ecsta V700, but they'll lose their grip before they wear out. The Toyo R888 will deliver more consistent grip over a longer period and over a wider temperature range. I plan to buy a set in the spring. That's what's in my avatar. The Nitto NT01 is basically the same tire with less grooves, but more than just the two grooves that most of the others have.

NASA's view on things:

A. TIRES:
1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (auto- cross), Hoosier A7, Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compounds only), Hoosier Wet DOT (if used in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +22
2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier A6 +17
3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS, Hankook Z214
(C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R7, Kumho V710 +10
4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier SM7 +9
5) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier R6, Hoosier SM6 (note:
Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge EC-Dry tires (225, 245, 275) OK) +8
6) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD +7
7) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating
over 40: Maxxis RC-1 (examples: Kumho V700, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup & MPS Cup 2,
Nitto NT01, Pirelli PZero Corsa, Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1, Yokahama A048, etc.) +6
8) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200
(examples: BFG g-Force Rival, Toyo R1R, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, Bridgestone Potenza RE070, Kumho Ecsta XS, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08, Hankook R-S3) +2
9) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30 (of any origin--re-caps and re-treads are not permitted)

R comps: 2012. P zero trofeo R wins, R888 last.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Auto-Track-Day-Tyre-Test.htm

[gliding_serpent]

I will update this since i started it. In sumary, with a passanger (300lbs more weight loss compared to last year, but 200-250lbs instructor), a new dansk sport muffler, more confidence in my brakes, and a s-car maf added from last year... Along with trofeo r's in 225/245x16 (vs my prior fresh 205/225 re11a's) i just cut my best lap time from last year from 1:27 to 1:22... And that was one of my only laps unubstructed by slower cars.

Increased comfort and confidence to push my car was probably the biggest cause of my gain, but the tires were great. At near estimated 2700lbs with both drivers included, i ran pressures at 26 front 34 rears, nitrogen filled. Rollover never went beyond the roll line (i kept it a centameter or two away. I could have gone lower in the rears, but i was happy.

They did well in light rain with a wet track (no standing rain), and came alive in the dry.

Based on my cars weight (2300lbs without driver), i anticipate to need 24/30 for pressures front to rear when i am solo, based on ratios to stock and weight loss compared to stock.

With a clear track and the 250lbs ballast removed, i can probably get into 1:19's.

I knew i was pushing pretty hard as my car was suffering a good amount of over and understeerin many corners, and generally trying to kill me. They say you are not driving fast enough if your car does not show it's handling weaknesses. The tires are pretty quiet so they don't give you much auditory warning for brake away, but I never got into any trouble that my butt sensor could not identify early and preventavly correct.

Sessions were only 20-30 mins, and traffic often slowed my progress so i cant comment on temps over time. What I can say is that they felt fast, a bit loose (good in my books), and very confidence inspiring.

This was both the fastest i have ever lapped in any car, the most challenging a drive i have had, and the most fun. I will get another set once these go out. I hope to get a season on them (8 days).

[euro911sc]

Took my friend for a ride, 'My god this car is so much more fun than my Cayman! And I'm the passenger!'

Just had a Tracknight with the Trofeo Rs. Rain 1st session, drying 2nd session (video), dry 3rd session. All sessions had standing water in the apexes. I am coming from RA1s. Front are 225/16 and rears are 245. I had very slight rubbing on the driver's rear where the RA1 had good clearance. It strikes me that the Trofeo is more bulged where the RA1 is more square. The word 'Outside' was 1/2 rubbed off. I see a lead pipe in my future...

1st session in the rain I had a lot of under steer. I dropped the fronts 1 lb each. Cold the next day was 27 frt 30-31 rear. 2nd/3rd sessions no under steer. Car felt very planted and confidence was inspired after a 2 year break from track time.

I did manage to lock them up twice and noticed that they came back under control easily after that with slight vibrations. I was able to do a lot of right foot steering with very predictable results. I never heard them squeal. They are very quiet. I had no problems in the wet/rain. RA1s were not fun in the wet much less than the rain!

Wear was very very even. PBIR eats the hell out of left fronts and mine was not showing the signs that the RA1s did. Actually the wear was awesome! No chunking or weirdness.

After 60 min of track time I am very happy with them. Never felt greasy. Never felt like they were 'going away'. Cost was ~$1k all in. I think that's great considering my other options in the 16" zone (RE11/Hosiers).

2nd session video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC9Au3fkfO4&feature=youtu.be

Gallery pics at speed:
PORSCHE\BLACK\911 - PhotosByJuha.com

My boss in his 2010 M3 with coil overs and r888s could not keep up... Yes I will buy these again!

Caveat.... This is off 1 hour of track time... YMMV!

[gliding_serpent]

Excuse my chatting... Embarassing, but who cares.
http://youtu.be/G1wuVbenuqk

[333pg333]

I still can't figure out why the best R Comps aren't available in North America but for some reason they're almost only available for us Down Under and Japan. The Yokohama AO50 is probably the quickest followed closely by the Hankook Z221. I'm sorta glad that they're not as you guys seem to have issues with tyre supply on Nittos and others from what I've seen. If you guys had access to those two we'd never see any down here. Having said that, I've imported tyres from the US amongst many other items and I can't see why the reverse couldn't happen?

The Nittos are a very nice tyre too. Best value for money by a longshot imho.

Yokos

Hankooks

[Driven97]

A huge chunk of the market here for track day stuff goes to LeMons/Chump (cheap w2w cars,) Ultimate Street Car (show & go) and pro touring (American Muscle cars learned about turns recently.) All three groups require 200tw rating tires.

Autocross is a smaller tire market, but they're also either 200tw or straight to Hoosier A7.

DOT R comps (or "streetable track day" tires) still exist here, but the market is pretty thin as HPDE stuff is waning a bit right now in favor of the more organized events.

[gliding_serpent]

A lot of our racers use r comps because full slicks can be too soft for our old rough track.

[gliding_serpent]

With two track days on these tires I will add a few more thoughts. My first day was damp/light rain to cool and dry. They did fine. Most reciently temps were 20-25 degrees celcius, and dry. Heat has yet to be an issue and they certinally do fine in 20-25 minute runs. They give no real auditory warning about grip, but they are very predictable, and forgiving. They certinally were not "all or none" with grip.

For 1000$ canadian for my set of 225/245x16, I will get another set when these are done. I have 10 cycles in these, so it will be interesting to see how they hold up.

[gliding_serpent]

I am just adding to my experiences. With about 18 heat cycles on them, i have lots of tread (track use only), but I think they may be on the decline. Hard to say as I was not timing my fastest laps (sessions when I was pushing hardest) the last time out, but my fastest laps were when I first put them on. Since then my lap times have slowly declined. Mind you, temps have also gone up (less engine power), so it is hard to say. We will see the next time out when temps should again be high, and it will not be a school, so there will be lots of time to drive hard and gather data. If conditions are again similar, and i am slower still, I have my answer.

Pirelli also wants 29-30 hot for pressures. I run a bit higher than that for the rears, but will see how they do with 30 hot. Not sure if the vintage 16 sizes like mine would be the same as with advice for their lower profile versions.

[Driven97]

I think I mentioned it before, but thanks for trying these / giving us a candid review of them. So many people are afraid to try anything new around here all too often.

[winders]

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent

I am just adding to my experiences. With about 18 heat cycles on them, i have lots of tread (track use only), but I think they may be on the decline. Hard to say as I was not timing my fastest laps (sessions when I was pushing hardest) the last time out, but my fastest laps were when I first put them on. Since then my lap times have slowly declined. Mind you, temps have also gone out (less engine power), so it is hard to say. We will see the next time out when temps should again be high, and it will not be a school, so there will be lots of time to drive hard and gather data. If conditions are again similar, and i am slower still, I have my answer.

Pirelli also wants 29-30 hot for pressures. I run a bit higher than that for the rears, but will see how they do with 30 hot. Not sure if the vintage 16 sizes like mine would be the same as with advice for their lower profile versions.

Doesn't Pirelli want 2.2 bar hot (32 psi) for the Trofeo R?

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by winders

Doesn't Pirelli want 2.2 bar hot (32 psi) for the Trofeo R?

We both seem to be right! I got my 2 bar from here: P ZERO TROFEO R, Motorsport tyres - Car Tyres, Motorcycle Tyres, Truck Tyres, Motorsport tyres - PIRELLI INTERNATIONAL

"P Zero™ Trofeo R does not usually require higher pressures for racetrack use. It is designed for use at a pressure of approximately 2 bar, to be adjusted according to the type of car. "

But, you are right... On page 18 of 20 they say 2.2 bar hot. http://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/pirellityre/ww/en/catalogue/motorsport/pzero_trofeo/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG/original/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG.pdf

In the end i used 2 bar as a guideline only. I think their 2.2 bar works best for 16 inch tires as when i got to 30psi i was having more rollover on the rears than I would like. I found 32-34 psi in the rears best. I had 30-32 On the fronts, hot.

I still think their best days are in the first 10 heat cycles. My fastest lap came out of nowhere on day one during busy hpde mostly obstructed by much slower traffic. I had one unobstructed lap and I hammered out a fast lap... While basically chatting about how much i loved the car. Mind you, i was more focused on teaching the last two days when I was recording my recient laps.

In August I will hit the track hard, no excuses, record everything, and see what I get. Sometimes the more you do something, the more the brain wants to follow a (often safe) pattern, especially in schools. Maybe I need to push a bit harder. On my fastest lap i remember the car feeling a bit loose. I am pretty sure my car was far closer to the edge. In the schools I go fast, but for safety don't push to the point of causing the bad behaviour.

Still, I bet that like slicks, the big gains are early. The wear rating is 60.

[Cag4]

Pretty much everyone out here has switched to the RE71-r's, running 225/50/16 square on our Fuchs. Everyone is faster. No one is missing the 245's in the rear. Haven't seen a set of the Trofeo's as I think everyone is using the 200 TW rating of the RE71-r's to stay in their classification. The 60 TW of the Trofeos would bump me into CC-10 mid-season, so it'll be at least next season before I try a set.

[gliding_serpent]

Interesting. I had re-11a's prior in 205/225... And i cut five seconds off a lap with 225/245 trofeo r's. Now, i probably gained some power, and lost some weight... But from 1:27 to 1:22 easy. Even if 2-3 of those seconds are tire... That is huge.

The question is how long can the tires hold those kinds of gains? I am thinking they are like slicks... Huge gains, but at a cost. Physics and chemistry wins. Everything at a cost. I will know more the next time I am out. They were a second off the pace after 18 cycles... But i don't feel i was recording my fastest laps.