Sub belt set up for DE/AX

OldSpool87 · 08-26-2016, 04:05 AM

I recently picked up a 1982 SC from a fellow Pelican and great guy down in Florida. I bought the car to use primarily for AX and DE as I continue to learn my way. About two years ago I hit a tire wall at Limerock. That car (930) took two years to get back and I don't want to track it for a few reasons. Part of the deal with my very understanding wife was to make the next car focused on safety.

The SC is stock with the exception of the interior which has been given a hybrid RS treatment and well done. That included Recaro Sportster seats which are beautiful. https://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/product-areas-us/aftermarket-seats/products/sportster.html

The car also has a roll bar. I have just realized that the seats do not have a slot for sub belts which to my knowledge make 5 & 6 point harnesses not an option.

Is there any way to make these seats work with something other than the stock 3 point? I have read about Schroth 4 point ASM but don't believe PCA permits 4 point even with ASM at DE. I plan on reaching out to my tech/safety folks in my local PCA group CVR.

Can a seat be modified to accept a sub belt? The car would be driven to events.

I've done a lot of searching, and rules and guidelines seem to change over the years along with conflicting manufacturer and PCA info.

Any insight or advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSpool87

I recently picked up a 1982 SC from a fellow Pelican and great guy down in Florida. I bought the car to use primarily for AX and DE as I continue to learn my way. About two years ago I hit a tire wall at Limerock. That car (930) took two years to get back and I don't want to track it for a few reasons. Part of the deal with my very understanding wife was to make the next car focused on safety.

The SC is stock with the exception of the interior which has been given a hybrid RS treatment and well done. That included Recaro Sportster seats which are beautiful. https://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/product-areas-us/aftermarket-seats/products/sportster.html

The car also has a roll bar. I have just realized that the seats do not have a slot for sub belts which to my knowledge make 5 & 6 point harnesses not an option.

Is there any way to make these seats work with something other than the stock 3 point? I have read about Schroth 4 point ASM but don't believe PCA permits 4 point even with ASM at DE. I plan on reaching out to my tech/safety folks in my local PCA group CVR.

Can a seat be modified to accept a sub belt? The car would be driven to events.

I've done a lot of searching, and rules and guidelines seem to change over the years along with conflicting manufacturer and PCA info.

Any insight or advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

Short answer is no, PCA is not even allowing the latest LWB in US GT4 passenger side seats to be modified. These seats come perforated to mark the sub hole but they need to be cut along the perforations to use a sub.

AFAIK For DE the Schroth 4 point is allowed but not preferred

Aslet · 08-26-2016, 09:02 AM

I am a CVR member and do DEs. 4 point belts are NOT allowed.

I do not know about modifying of the seat. If you are thinking safety you should consider a roll cage and a proper race seat with harness holes and a fixed back.

Trackrash · Trackrash's Garage

If you are using the car for mostly track events, sell the seats you have and buy proper race seats. You can check, but I don't believe any organization will allow you to legaly modify your seats.

I have race seats in my car,Momo Corsas, and they are acceptable on the street.

The key is to get seats that fit you. I also use an extra pad on the bottom that I use on the street.

Also, make sure your roll bar meets requirement for all the organizations, PCA, NASA, SCCA, etc.

The last DE I attended a guy got sent home because his seats, harness mounts, and roll bar were inadequate.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslet

I am a CVR member and do DEs. 4 point belts are NOT allowed.

I do not know about modifying of the seat. If you are thinking safety you should consider a roll cage and a proper race seat with harness holes and a fixed back.

Dave and I were just discussing this last Thrs
from the CVR tech form

Quote:

Seat Belts: Factory or better installation in both seats; must be securely mounted; belts not frayed; equal restraints for passenger and
driver. 4 point harnesses prohibited except Schroth Quick Fit. 5-, 6- and 7-point harnesses must use seat with factory routing holes.
Harness webbing must be replaced every five years.

racer · 08-26-2016, 04:01 PM

Fixed back seats are a better choice. They tend not to break when you go off backwards into the wall/tires etc. Mount them on rails or fix them. Plus they look cooler

Nowadays, most clubs don't want you to mod the seat to fit the belt, because there is no way to verify if the seat manufacturer designed the seat for a sub belt.

cashman · 08-26-2016, 05:03 PM

Call up Corbeau. They will sell you the plastic pieces that make up the sub belt assembly. Cut a hole in the seat (takes some balls) and install the pieces. That's what I did. Works perfectly. They're not expensive. Measure twice and cut once.

cashman · 08-26-2016, 05:18 PM

Not the best picture through the windshield but this was the result:

Cajundaddy · Cajundaddy's Garage

Different regions handle safety a little differently but in general:

Modifying a seat to accept a sub belt is never allowed in PCA.

4pt Schroth ASM are allowed in PCA with very specific provisions. You will probably need to work directly with your region tech chair to get them approved for use.

If serious safety is your goal. My suggestion is to go proper racing seats/5pt/hans/ stout roll bar. Anything less will be a significant compromise and an SC is a tin can with none of the modern energy absorbing crumple zones, hardened steel passenger compartment, multiple air bags, or heavy side impact bars found on all modern Porsches

OldSpool87 · 08-27-2016, 04:32 AM

Thanks to each of you for the advice and information. I'll likely end up taking the car to my local air cooled shop for their thoughts. They do some race prep and have yet to steer me wrong on any other jobs. I'll also reach out to folks in CVR to get their thoughts specific to the chapter.

Thanks again everyone.

turborat · turborat's Garage

I really dislike 4-point belts and too many clubs allow them. As an instructor, I cringe a little every time I am assigned to one of these seats. In a crash, the 4-point belts can rise up (and the occupant slide down) and break a jaw, sternum or worse. And a factory or other two piece seat will break rendering the harness and Hans device useless anyway. Spend the bucks and put a couple of FIA approved seats in the car.

OldSpool87 · 01:21 PM

Thanks turborat. I'm definitely not looking to cut corners or save a few bucks here. I like the idea of 5/6 point with proper set up. I just need to get some more experienced eyes on the car to guide me to that proper set up. I plan on window shopping for seats this weekend at Limerock Historical fest.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSpool87

Thanks turborat. I'm definitely not looking to cut corners or save a few bucks here. I like the idea of 5/6 point with proper set up. I just need to get some more experienced eyes on the car to guide me to that proper set up. I plan on window shopping for seats this weekend at Limerock Historical fest.

Give Dan Jacobs a call