Cayenne responsible for putting Porsche on the bottom

[Cobalt]

Actually the primary reason Porsche entered the SUV market was because of a limited interest in sports cars in conjunction with the mass influx of high powered sports cars and sedans by MB/BMW and everyone else is introducing that are taking away from their market share, not to mention the sudden improvement in US sports cars costing 1/2 as much. Also because the SUV is still considered the strongest growing market with a very high profit margin.

The Cayenne is actually saving Porsches butt and keeping them alive or being taken over. I can't say much for the v6 or the S but the turbo is like no other SUV available the handling is far superior (literally like a large 911 and it will keep up with them if not pass some of them in both straight line and through the twisties depending on model) to anything else out there, and the ride quality and perormance is outsatanding. I was dead set agianst these from the start, all it took was a couple of hours driving and i was impressed.

Yes, it is an aquired taste regarding looks but after owning one and seeing what else is being offered it wins hands down in my book. The interior is great the stereo better than most I have heard and the overall feel is superior to any hulking SUV. Campared to my BIL's RR or ML55, BMW 4.4 I would not trade the CT for any of these for my needs. The RR and other SUv's have an advantage on size but the CT is really quite a superb vehicle. Give one a try I guarrantee you your attitude will change towards the pros on this one.

I am not saying sell your sports cars and buy a sport SUV, however, if you need a vehicle like the Cayenne it can bring quite a bit of driving pleasure as your 911/914/928/968 etc deliver and carry all the extra stuff to boot. Now even when it comes to SUV's ther is no substitute.

[coolbeverage]

I am not doubting at all that Porsche is presently making the most high performance SUV on the market. As a matter of fact as soon as I heard about it I knew that this is exactly what it would be and I applauded them for this. However, my point on this whole topic was that it is needless, senseless, overindulgent and a vehicle only Americans would buy. That SUV could probably win a Pikes Peak challenge right out of the box. Obviously the SUV craze will march on obviously whoever else is left without one will also start manufacturing one (if there is anyone else left, Ferrari???). If it makes Porsche loads of money that is great too. I just think it puts loads of people behind a Porsche badged steering wheel who know nothing at all about Porsche and I guess this isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Most of my distain comes from years of hating SUVs anyway and not a hatred for the Cayenne to be truthful. My first ever car was a RX-7 followed by 2 more RX-7s until the SUV came along in the early 90s and killed almost all sports cars within my price range at the time. When I was growing up if you wanted a all purpose utilitarian vehicle you bought a station wagon b/c SUVs didn't exist. Plus anyone in their right mind would have to agree they are getting too damn large. God forbid the guy in a sports car who gets T-boned by a fat head talking on a cell phone blowing through a light in his Excursion....

[Cobalt]

I won't argue with you that SUV's have gotten way to large and that the majority of A holes that drive these things are oblivious to what is going on around them. Unfortunatly these people are dangerous, it doesn't matter what they are driving, they are in their own world and could care less if they are being safe or not.

Believe it or not the Cayenne is very popular in europe and the US market only accounts for 1/3 or so of overall sales.

I don't think there is much that can be done about the US's fascination with high HP large cars and trucks and unfortunatly the sports car market is pretty much dead or out of reach of the average buyer. So for many these cars are becoming an all around vehicle and if you need to drive one daily so you can transport things that don't fit into 911's or RX7's it is far better than a Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango. At least the feeling of power and excitement can now be had were nothing but numbness was felt before.

I predict that the days of the sports car will soon be dead and only the wealthy few will be able to afford the supercars of tomorrow. Unfortunatly they call it progress. But even my 430 hp turbo 3.6 which just 10 years ago was the supercar of its time with just 360hp will have a hard time keeping up with some of these modern cars and trucks we will be seeing in the future. It looks like the new Z06 may be the last chance for the average guy to own a car with such capabilities and then again were can one trully appreciate a car with this much potential? It looks like the days of open road freedom are being restricted to track time only.

Speaking of station wagons it looks like Dodge is trying to convert that market now with a 300+hp hemi Magnum. Times are changing.

[coolbeverage]

Thanks for the info I was wondering if the Cayanne was selling abroad. That throw back Dodge Hemi wagon is pretty cool. I like the commercial where the hot shot in the Lotus pulls up beside the guy in that new Dodge asking him what he has under the hood. I have always been a big fan of the hot hatchback and with the popularity of these cars in Euopre I kinda thought that after say the 10 year lag between Europen car trends and the US that maybe more cars like these would make it over. I almost bought a VW R32 for my wife but it isnt offered in a triptronic and she cant drive stick so she ended up with a GTI. Did you know many of the SUVs are getting idiot proffing to keep the cell phone glabber mouths on the road. I think it is Volvo who already has a system that alerts you if you start to leave your drive lane w/o the signal on by either a audible sounds through the stereo that sounds like those rumbble strips or by a shaking of the steering wheel like those video games. I think it is sad that it has come to this. I heard about a family of four who recently had a huge crash killing almost everyone involved b/c they were fight over which DVD to paly in their SUV.......Sad man sad

[adscab]

Originally posted by markwemple
why not build a purist's car. You know, get rid of ALL! the bs luxo stuff and place a true RS back on US shores for a price that many can deal with.

They do. It's called the GT3. It is very competitively priced when compared to a new 997, 997S, 996 Cabs, 996 TT, etc. If you are asking Porsche to build and sell a car for less than the cost of a new Boxster or used 911, why in their right mind would they do that and would they be profitable?

[coolbeverage]

"would they be profitable?" The markup on any luxury item is massive. If they made a car simliar to the new Loutus (not a Lotus expert and I get Elise and Esprit confused but it is the one powered by the hopped up Toyota Celica engine, Elise?) I think it would be a huge seller. No fluff. Daily driver Mon-Frid. track car on the weekend...need only change the tires.

[markwemple]

Exactly. If one does a comparison of the cost of a 911 from 1970 and now, using today's dollar value, you would see that a new 911 is more than double the cost. And, from a purist's point of view, half the car.

Lotus has it dead on!!

[coolbeverage]

I was autocrossing a Miata recently and talked to a guy there who had a orange version of the Lotus and he loves it. It was so basic it and minimal and it reminded me of what owening a 550 Spyder must have been like. Seeing as how there aren't many orange Espri out there I think I have even seen the guy in workday traffic since. He said it is a joy to drive as a comuter also.

[adscab]

I agree with the concept but not with the soundness of it from a business perspective. First of all, the "purists" would $h!t in their pants if a bareboned RS type Porsche came with a Toyota engine, or a VW, or a Mitsubishi, heck, even a Boxster engine. Secondly, I believe this would dilute the brand even moreso than the Cayenne. Look at Mercedes, selling everything from a <$30K C class to a $400K SLR and everything in between. Mercedes has spread itself so thin that their quality has gone down the toilet. And lastly, Porsche has nothing to gain by undercutting their own Boxster with an affordable performance vehicle that frankly, will only appeal to a very small percentage of the market.

[markwemple]

The boxster has done nothing to dilute the Porsche image and it is a subcontracted car. I also think that there are many who understand Porsche and would buy a lesser expensive model (duh!) since there are enough who are willing to buy a porsche, wait for it, truck??

Mercedes quality has come about because of the Chrysler bug not the huge $ gap. Or are you arguing that the current wide $ range w/in Porche is going to negatively affect their quality. Hmmmm?

[adscab]

I did not say the Boxster was diluting the Porsche brand. I said if they subcontracted for an engine similar to the Toyota motor in the Elise, that would dilute the brand.

Yes, the masses would buy a less expensive model. No, the masses won't buy a hard core, track beast with little to no creature comforts that would beat them to death on the streets. Again, for hard core "enthusiasts" such as yourself, it is a no brainer. For the rest of the world, the decision isn't that hard.

[coolbeverage]

The benefit of having other models besides the top notch very expensive models is that you build a life-long customer. It works like this. Obviously not at this time nor any time before this have I been able to afford say a 997. At some point can I see myself able to? Yes. If I start with a baseline car (this hypothetical car we are referring to priced below a Boxster) then progress to say a Boxster, maybe then a S model, then whatever version of 911 they are into (998, 999). There is no way for a car company to make more money off of a customer than if they are a life long owner. The dealerships make almost all their money from parts and labor, the factory continues to reel me in model after model till hell maybe I even buy a Cayenne for the wife????? I have owned 3 RX-7s and a Miata all 4 cars were building to a P-car purchase. What if Porsche had had my business for all 4 rather than Mazda? The only people really upset about what Benz is doing is grumpy old men who think they are too good to sit in the waiting lounge with the 27 year old guy who is driving his first more base model Benz. Is the 27 year old guy upset? Hell no he is pleased as hell to be driving his Benz, he has allot of fun doing so, and he could not give a **** what the old man thinks. I am the same way. I could not give a **** what a purist of Porsche thinks. Am I happy yes, am I learning more and more about a great car. Yes! Besides purist is just a nice way of saying elitist if you ask me.

[markwemple]

My comments about building a lightweight haven't been as much about $ but more about the car. The Cayenne S isn't very pricey (when one looks at the rediculous prices SUVs get these days). It's been about the car. I almost bought a new 1996 911 cab, but it bored me to death. The older cars might not be as competant but they give much more imput to the driver and are about the driving experience. I can easily recall when people mourned the advent of power assist brakes (still say that my SC doesn't need them) then on to the auto tranny, now cup holders. What's next, 4 doors. When was the last time the 911 was a sports car?? I guess with every r type. Unfortunately in the beginning all of them were sports cars with the Rs being the ready to race model!

[adscab]

Well said. I couldn't agree more with you Coolbeverage and Mark. Unfortunately for us, Porsche will continue to market cars to the upper middle class and above. I am sure they look at various criteria including household income, age, sex, etc. Branding is extremely important to a companies success and to create brand loyalty. However, Porsche has a different problem than, say, Toyota. Toyota is competing at the entry level with Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Ford, etc. They are hoping as their consumers climb the totem pole of success, they will remain loyal to the brand. Porsche doesn't have that problem. Don't you remember when you were a kid? For me, I will always remember the poster of the 930, with the buldging fenders, big tail, insane performance. I was "branded" for life. The loyalty was already ingrained. So, when income caught up, I purchased a 993TT.

And to me, the 993TT is still a "sportscar"!

[galwaytt]

ok, this is meant to be FUNNY so don't go gettin' all uppity .!!

The reason Porsche make it is easy - $$$$

[Cobalt]

Interesting point made.

Who ever thought or said that Porsche ever really marketed their cars to anything but the higher end market?

Porsche's have always been in a price range higher than your average car. Not as expensive as say Ferrari but pricy none the less. Even the 914 which is considered to be an inexpensive car was pricy for its day. The "average buyer" was never what Porsche was marketing their cars to. Now the SUV market is being taken to a new level by having Porsche build and sell a car that is forcing the other Auto makers to re-evaluate the SUV market.

I commend Porsche for taking such a bold and risky step and what they produced was a vehicle that allows one to have the fun of a sports car and still have a vehicle that can be used for utilitarian purposes.

Also who said the older cars can't keep up with the new. Although the older cars may need some minor updating, these cars with minor mods can easily keep up if not surpass some of the newer models. My 3.6T now 11 years old can hold its on against any modern car. Porsche, vette, viper you name it. My Cayenne can easily blast buy and handle as well as most any sedan out there. IMO it does a better job, feels like a Porsche and brings a smile to my face almost as much as my 3.6T and I have owned and driven many Porsche's amongst other cars over the past 20+ years. For the same price side by side I would take a Cayenne S over my mothers MB E500 any day. The quality is better the feel is better and the entire vehicle is just plain better.

My recommendation to everyone is to take one for a test drive. Not just a take it slow and drive around the block test drive but mash the pedal to the floor and use the tip to power through the turns test drive. I guarentee you will see things differently.

Lastly, you show me one business out there that is not interested in making money and I will show you a dying business. Hell yeah it's always about money.