Pasadena Air-cooled SCAMMERS!! Consumers beware!!

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Small Claims is probably a good move, I was more arguing against getting an attorney. Normally when attorney's get involved they are usually the only ones who make money.
Look, we've all been screwed by Porsche shops, I was screwed just last year. Had to take it to my local mechanic and spend several thousand more. Ironically the first shop was supposed to be a friend of mine, he originally offered me some of my money back and then a day later said after he consulted with his attorney he didn't owe me anything. Guess we weren't friend's after all.
The best thing you can do is what you're doing, warn the community.

---Adam

Yeah I hear you. Glad he’s taking customer service advice from his “attorney”

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Yeah I hear you. Glad he’s taking customer service advice from his “attorney”

I pointed out to him that as a business owner for decades I've never had an attorney, never needed one, but if he has one on speed dial that should say something....

---Adam

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I pointed out to him that as a business owner for decades I've never had an attorney, never needed one, but if he has one on speed dial that should say something....

---Adam

Yeah I got the same vibe from Curt on this situation when he so quickly stated it’s a civil matter the police won’t do anything and that he would lien sale my car. Definitely felt like this was his wheel house

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Yeah I got the same vibe from Curt on this situation when he so quickly stated it’s a civil matter the police won’t do anything and that he would lien sale my car. Definitely felt like this was his wheel house

That's the problem with these kinds of things, while it might be your first rodeo, the shop owner who has a bag of tricks, it is far from his first rodeo. It's like a gentleman's agreement, it only works if both men are in fact gentleman.

---Adam

[nathanbs]

Now buried pretty good in off topic/off topic on 911S registry. Definitely feel like strings are being pulled over there for their long-time member, Curt. First deleted and so I reposted and now moved to the back corner under the old sofa. Oh well I still have you guys Off Topic

[boba]

In the original post you stated that you texted your wish list to the shop. If that is correct that list would be the written request of the work to be done. Without seeing that list this is just a lot of noise. Show us the texts to understand what you wanted done.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by boba

In the original post you stated that you texted your wish list to the shop. If that is correct that list would be the written request of the work to be done. Without seeing that list this is just a lot of noise. Show us the texts to understand what you wanted done.

The OP runs a body shop. Don't you think he understands the business? A mechanic is virtually the same business model. I doubt he'd be posting this without having been actually screwed. The judge will of course need the list to parse through the entire complaint, but I don't see why it would be needed here.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by boba

In the original post you stated that you texted your wish list to the shop. If that is correct that list would be the written request of the work to be done. Without seeing that list this is just a lot of noise. Show us the texts to understand what you wanted done.

“List for lime green '74
-noise while driving in reverse
-fuel reserve light constantly on
-oil leak
-some sort of test to show condition of engine for sight unseen buyers. What do you recommend. Compression with leak down? Maybe photos or video of the results ”

My list was a request to diagnose not to go ahead and repair. We had a prior call discussing that I wanted him to look at all of these items and let me know as I’m selling the car so I may not perform the repairs if they are too costly. He asked me to text him a list in order to not miss anything. I think that diagnosis was billed at 1 hour at $135/hr. From there we only discussed the oil leaks and fuel sender totaling about $1000-1200. Keep in mind I offered $1700 as I felt that would be fair as I don’t expect the leakdown and trans noise to be free.

[groovydude]

I feel your pain! What really bites is that you had a good experience with the business in the past. Trust was built by someone who's long gone.

Go to small claims, tell your story, you'll get a verdict in your favor. Good luck collecting though. These guys obviously knew what the risks were at the onset and chose to scam you anyway. They won't last long as an air cooled shop with a bad rep, but of course then they'll just move on to some other scam.

[boba]

Originally Posted by JMS935

The OP runs a body shop. Don't you think he understands the business? A mechanic is virtually the same business model. I doubt he'd be posting this without having been actually screwed. The judge will of course need the list to parse through the entire complaint, but I don't see why it would be needed here.

I do not question the fact he feels he was screwed, he would not post on public forums unless he had a grievance. But it’s need here is only for the benefit of having the full information for discussion. I do not have a dog in this fight, don’t live in the market area so the knowledge about this shop has little practical value to me. I’m only posting because it’s raining here and a bit bored. But if he asked for things to be done in his texts and there was a reply it would illuminate this discussion. Seems to be an important bit of information ignored in the OP.

[boba]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

“List for lime green '74
-noise while driving in reverse
-fuel reserve light constantly on
-oil leak
-some sort of test to show condition of engine for sight unseen buyers. What do you recommend. Compression with leak down? Maybe photos or video of the results ”

My list was a request to diagnose not to go ahead and repair. We had a prior call discussing that I wanted him to look at all of these items and let me know as I’m selling the car so I may not perform the repairs if they are too costly. He asked me to text him a list in order to not miss anything. I think that diagnosis was billed at 1 hour at $135/hr. From there we only discussed the oil leaks and fuel sender totaling about $1000-1200. Keep in mind I offered $1700 as I felt that would be fair as I don’t expect the leakdown and trans noise to be free.

Thank you for your reply.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by boba

In the original post you stated that you texted your wish list to the shop. If that is correct that list would be the written request of the work to be done. Without seeing that list this is just a lot of noise. Show us the texts to understand what you wanted done.

Even if I very clearly stated that I wanted all of those items performed in a text, by law all Automotive Repair Dealers(ARD) in CA are required to provide a written estimate to the customer

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I pointed out to him that as a business owner for decades I've never had an attorney, never needed one, but if he has one on speed dial that should say something....

---Adam

For the most part I like your posts, but this one was just asinine. Some businesses require an attorney to navigate a variety of issues that can arise. I have been self employed since 1996, and I have an attorney on "speed dial". It doesn't make me a predator.

In fact, I recently used my attorney in a car deal I recently did wherein the owner declared the car stolen about a year after I purchased it. Long story. Without an attorney I would have been toast; he expertly navigated the issues and got it resolved without going to court or anything. Cost me $500

Perhaps if Nathan had an attorney to begin with this would never have happened.

[Matt Monson]

As a business owner I have used multiple attorneys. I used a mergers and acquisitions specialist when creating my business. I have consulted with product liability specialist several times over the years. I do have a general business attorney on retainer, just like I have a CPA. Maybe some people don’t have them or use them but I do. To each their own.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Catorce

For the most part I like your posts, but this one was just asinine. Some businesses require an attorney to navigate a variety of issues that can arise. I have been self employed since 1996, and I have an attorney on "speed dial". It doesn't make me a predator.

In fact, I recently used my attorney in a car deal I recently did wherein the owner declared the car stolen about a year after I purchased it. Long story. Without an attorney I would have been toast; he expertly navigated the issues and got it resolved without going to court or anything. Cost me $500

Perhaps if Nathan had an attorney to begin with this would never have happened.

Lawyers have their place in this world, that's true, and if the need ever arose I would call one. In my experience however, the guys who are in this business who quickly invoke "their attorney" are usually not flying straight. Like in Nathan's case where he said the shop owner quickly explained the law to him, pretty much showing he was holding all the cards, so pay up if you want your car, or leave, without the car, which would be lien sold. So if you have an attorney and have a good relationship with him and find him an asset in your business dealings, that's great, a small businessman needs all the tools he can get his hands on. But like I said, in my experience, the guy who jumps behind his attorney quickly is usually well seasoned in what he is doing.

---Adam

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Catorce

For the most part I like your posts, but this one was just asinine. Some businesses require an attorney to navigate a variety of issues that can arise. I have been self employed since 1996, and I have an attorney on "speed dial". It doesn't make me a predator.

In fact, I recently used my attorney in a car deal I recently did wherein the owner declared the car stolen about a year after I purchased it. Long story. Without an attorney I would have been toast; he expertly navigated the issues and got it resolved without going to court or anything. Cost me $500

Perhaps if Nathan had an attorney to begin with this would never have happened.

I agree, I was shocked to hear that Adam has never needed an attorney. That is truly amazing in this litigious country that we live in where you can get sued for looking at someone sideways. Adam is quite lucky, I wish I had his luck.

I'm also equally shocked that you think an attorney would've been able to save Nathan from this shyster. Catorce, do you normally have your attorney negotiate all of your mechanical work before you bring your car to the shop? Seems quite ludicrous to me. He dropped his car off and was then threatened with a lien sale if he didn't give them cash on the spot when he went to pick it up. How would an attorney help that scenario, either before he dropped it off or after? It wouldn't.

I bet nobody has ever consulted their attorney before bringing a car in for service, just like none of us check the state's business website to see if the business is licensed and in good standing prior to dropping our car off at the shop, which PAC is NOT. I suppose he should've done that too. We operate under certain assumptions, that businesses that are open are both legitimate and have the proper license to be doing so. Unfortunately neither were the case with PAC, none of that is Nathan's fault.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by JMS935

I agree, I was shocked to hear that Adam has never needed an attorney. That is truly amazing in this litigious country that we live in where you can get sued for looking at some sideways. Adam is quite lucky, I wish I had his luck.

I'm also equally shocked that you think an attorney would've been able to save Nathan from this shyster. Catorce, do you normally have your attorney negotiate all of your mechanical work before you bring your car to the shop? Seems quite ludicrous to me. He dropped his car off and was then threatened with a lien sale if he didn't give them cash on the spot when he went to pick it up. How would an attorney help that scenario, either before he dropped it off or after? It wouldn't.

I bet nobody has ever consulted their attorney before bringing a car in for service, just like none of us check the state's business website to see if the business is licensed and in good standing prior to dropping our car off at the shop, which PAC is NOT. I suppose he should've done that too. We operate under certain assumptions, that businesses that are open are both legitimate and have the proper license to be doing so. Unfortunately neither were the case with PAC, none of that is Nathan's fault.

I'm extremely careful who I deal with so I've never needed an attorney to get in or out of a deal. It's kind of like when people ask him if I carry a gun when I buy a car, I say no, if it's a deal I think I might need a pistol, it's not a deal I go on.
As far as being sued, I'm known for being pretty honest when I sell cars. The only people who have ever been really pissed is when they think they are smarter than me. Like the guy who buys a car that I call "really rusty" and gets it and says, "This car is really rusty!" I say I agree, which is why I used those exact words when I sold it and showed pictures where it was really rusty. In these rare situations guys think because I'm young I'm also not as knowledgable as them, but more often than not I'm more.

Back to the case at hand, I don't think there is much Nathan can do other than small claims court and then he will probably win a judgment for about $1000 that he will then have to collect, which isn't easy. I would put my energy elsewhere, there are only so many hours in the day and laying in bed at night mad for months over $1000 is not good for the soul.

---Adam

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by JMS935

I'm also equally shocked that you think an attorney would've been able to save Nathan from this shyster. Catorce, do you normally have your attorney negotiate all of your mechanical work before you bring your car to the shop? Seems quite ludicrous to me. He dropped his car off and was then threatened with a lien sale if he didn't give them cash on the spot when he went to pick it up. How would an attorney help that scenario, either before he dropped it off or after? It wouldn't.

.

Doesn't apply to me; as an engine builder for 20+ years I have never needed a mechanic. For anything.

But I get your point.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Now buried pretty good in off topic/off topic on 911S registry. Definitely feel like strings are being pulled over there for their long-time member, Curt. First deleted and so I reposted and now moved to the back corner under the old sofa. Oh well I still have you guys Off Topic

Fun read, thanks for the link, especially that Frank Beck character suggesting you're simply too cheap to pay what the scammer wants.

What's their membership fees like these days ? I accidentally walked into their temp office last reunion and thought it was an AARP meet

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Catorce

Doesn't apply to me; as an engine builder for 20+ years I have never needed a mechanic. For anything.

But I get your point.

Got it. That explains that, but you can hopefully understand that it's not like he didn't do some sort of expected due diligence and thus got burned for it. None of us do due diligence like that when we drop off our car at the mechanic for an oil leak. If we did so, then there wouldn't be enough time in the day to make sure that every business we are frequenting is on the up and up. Or we'd all be broke retaining attorneys to simply do the mundane for us. He did nothing any of us wouldn't have done ourselves...outside maybe someone like you that doesn't need a mechanic in the first place.