Recession sink values????

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by pmax

. . . granny turbo's.

Speaking of which, turbocharger selection is one of several things that Porsche did that I have to point and laugh at; they used a rediculously laggy unit, originally found in heavy machinery and work trucks, for the entire 930 run (a 3k 3ldz) - better units were available at the time. That makes zero sense and seems like some kind of a strange joke by the factory.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by pmax

Some would even say it's caveman tech



Missed the point.

Here's what 930 said "Neither deliver boost like a early 3.3."

Your previous post says the same.

Yes, full caveman!

I guess I didn't write very clearly, as my point was that they do deliver boost the same (except for the ones with the thermal reactor plumbing).

[voitureltd]

I think many like to keep them granny stock so they can joke about the poor result that can be different with better stuff, like this in photos below.! Oh wait, Porsche themselves developed this stuff long ago for the 930 934 935. The go faster stuff bolts right in. Better not use it as then it would not be a showroom model with all it's deficiencies. For me, evolution to a better performance outcome is good for a 930, especially when Porsche themselves did the development. Lots of ways to improve on the stockers ( maybe not go to quite the extreme ) but conversely they are scintillating to drive,. Now, back to my man cave, where what I think makes sense to me


Or this bad boy

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Alan A

No he has it right.
They’d rather use Uber.

Absolute nonsense

Don't believe all the click bait "woe is today's youth" headlines you read.
In 1983, 87% of 19 year olds had a driver's license.
In 2014, 70% of 19 year olds had a driver's license.
For people in their 20s, the gap is even smaller.

It's pure fantasy to think that car culture was thing great big thing before cell phones made all the kids zombies who ride bicycles until age 30. "Youngsters" aren't into P-cars, because they can't afford them. They're into Jap tuner cars like the WRX and Civic, because they're cheap, and there's a huge aftermarket of cheap parts and mods for them. (And they have four doors and seats for hos and bros.) Those kids are hardly afraid of getting their hands dirty wrenching; in fact, they can't stop themselves from swapping out parts and modding the crap out of them until the car becomes a monstrosity to older eyes. The Pelican audience probably has no idea this is going on, and concludes that because they don't see 19 year olds buying 911s and tuning them, they don't care about cars. The youngsters who care about cars are definitely out there, they just don't care about Porsches, or can't afford to.

An elite suburban town where old guys own "weekend Porsches" is not remotely representative sample of the 1000's tuner car kids now posting how to's on YouTube.

Also, what about pickup truck culture? It's not a thing on the coasts, but elsewhere lifting and modifying big American pickups is a huge thing.

2 years ago, I saw an ad for 2004 Subaru WRX STI 78k miles Java Black Pearl



Yeah, $21K for an Impreza? But it's had basically every performance part swapped out for an aftermarket improvement. I don't even know what half that crap is. According to that dyno sheet it makes 362hp.
What 2004 Porsche making 362hp can you buy for $21K?
I'm not trying to suggest this ricer Subaru is better than a Porsche, but to the kids who are into this stuff, the math is clear.

Years ago I had an illuminating conversation with a young co-worker. Kid was just out of the army, and was really into his Jap car (I forget what it was, maybe an Accord.) He and I chatted about all the mods he did to it, including some ludicrous audio system with multiple DVD screens in the headrests. I commented that I didn't understand why anyone would spend $15K+ plus modding an econo car to make it faster, when they could take that money and buy a used sports car that was already fast. His take was that it was cooler to mod a car to make it faster than a sports car (I didn't get into whether a ricer car could actually be "faster" than a dedicated sports car, but that wasn't the point. In his mind, something like a 363hp Accord is faster than a 300hp 911.) The idea is that "built > bought." As in, only old people buy a fast car, cool people build one.

As kids, we had the exact same underdog anti-establishment mindset. We all called it a “sleeper” car as we always dreamed about “putting a 454 into a Chevy Chevette” and “blowing the doors off some spoiled brat whose daddy bought for him”. Congrats, we are now the establishment. You and I don't think like that anymore. But lots of ricer kids do, and it's a dedicated car culture.

Car culture is alive and well, and perhaps bigger than ever before!
Were there car shows back in the 60s 70s or 80s with over 3,000 cars and 15,000 people?
I highly doubt it.

[robertmark]

Omg, what have I created??? The topic was will a recession bring values down moderately or excessively. What is everybody going to argue about next, what their favorite color is? Whose mother makes a better turkey at Thanksgiving? Cheers!!!

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Omg, what have I created??? The topic was will a recession bring values down moderately or excessively.

Right, and you must be new here, or you'd have known that it's inciting a riot, like showing up at the Women's March with a MAGA hat.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Ok. I’ll get myself edumacated then, my bad. Calling out Matt on his lack of knowlege, though, that is frickin hilarious! He’s the closest thing we’ve got to a Porsche encyclopedia on this forum.

Damn! I can't believe Raw missed pointing out this textbook case of forum buttsecks.

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

"Youngsters" aren't into P-cars, because they can't afford them.

+1. If used 911s were $15k again, "youngsters" would still be buying them. Its not only cheap civics and "jap" cars as you called them, go take a look at R3v forums and there are plenty of younger E30 owners around. You can still get a pristine one for under $15k and they are fun to drive, even with 130 hp. Miatas also have a large following in the younger car enthusiast community for the same reason. IMO the air cooled value increases of the last 5-10 years either come back to earth or the enthusiast community for these cars will die with current owners, as younger enthusiasts will have already been forced to move on.

[robertmark]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Right, and you must be new here, or you'd have known that it's inciting a riot, like showing up at the Women's March with a MAGA hat.

No, 10 years with Pelican, and 25 with PCA. I’ll have to give your women’s march idea some thought. That would be Awesome!!!!!

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

+1. If used 911s were $15k again, "youngsters" would still be buying them. Its not only cheap civics and "jap" cars as you called them, go take a look at R3v forums and there are plenty of younger E30 owners around. You can still get a pristine one for under $15k and they are fun to drive, even with 130 hp. Miatas also have a large following in the younger car enthusiast community for the same reason. IMO the air cooled value increases of the last 5-10 years either come back to earth or the enthusiast community for these cars will die with current owners, as younger enthusiasts will have already been forced to move on.

At some point those young enthusiasts grow up and start making money, tastes change too. When I was in high school it was civics, integras, fox body mustangs, etc. those same people aren’t driving those same cars. To think that enthusiasm for air cooled 911s will die with the current owners is silly.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Omg, what have I created??? The topic was will a recession bring values down moderately or excessively. What is everybody going to argue about next, what their favorite color is? Whose mother makes a better turkey at Thanksgiving? Cheers!!!

You have to learn to ignore the sugartroll and his screams of "Fire" in a crowded movie theater. He lives to incite. Don't waste your time listening.

[dwelle]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

Ha! I'll make you a bet. If that happens you quit sending me invoices.

ha! i'm not a betting man, but i'm pretty sure i'd be safe here.

keep writin' them checks!!...

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

At some point those young enthusiasts grow up and start making money, tastes change too. When I was in high school it was civics, integras, fox body mustangs, etc. those same people aren’t driving those same cars. To think that enthusiasm for air cooled 911s will die with the current owners is silly.

I assert that this is exactly what happened to the G body market during the runnup a few years back. 5 years ago, go to a C&C and all 911 owners were over 40. Suddenly a bunch of 30 something’s started showing up in SCs and Carreras. They’ve paid down the house a bit, covered the wedding, maybe a kid. Now there’s a bit for a toy.

If you hang out in Rennlist, and even occasionally here, there were folks talking about financing a $30k used 911. And then daily driving it. These are those same Uber users. They don’t actually drive it to work. Just to the grocery and the gym and to grab the kid from the sitter’s. Then they hit c&c on Saturday morning and the Angeles Crest or Peak to Peak Highway afterwards.

[SalParadise]

You guys went nuts on this thread, and I was away for a day and had to keep up tonight.

Buddy of mine who I grew up with in Connecticut, his father sold all his old American iron in 1987 and got the Porsche bug bigtime. First purchase: a white '78 930. Next purchase: red '87 that was a year old. He tore down the '78. Meticulously did the engine. After each was done we took them out.

My god the '78 still leaves a huge impression on me. The '87 not so much. I don't know what happened in a decade, but as Porsche being a company that refines things, the '87 was way more tame. It seemed like a Honda Accord compared to the '78. I am no 930 expert and never claimed to be. But to me it was awesome to be in both side-by-side. The cars felt completely different. An earlier car would be the car for me.

I talked to my buddy probably three years ago - his dad still has them. I was very happy that he kept them. Probably doesn't drive them much in Maine though.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Absolute nonsense

Don't believe all the click bait "woe is today's youth" headlines you read.
In 1983, 87% of 19 year olds had a driver's license.
In 2014, 70% of 19 year olds had a driver's license.
For people in their 20s, the gap is even smaller.

It's pure fantasy to think that car culture was thing great big thing before cell phones made all the kids zombies who ride bicycles until age 30. "Youngsters" aren't into P-cars, because they can't afford them. They're into Jap tuner cars like the WRX and Civic, because they're cheap, and there's a huge aftermarket of cheap parts and mods for them. (And they have four doors and seats for hos and bros.) Those kids are hardly afraid of getting their hands dirty wrenching; in fact, they can't stop themselves from swapping out parts and modding the crap out of them until the car becomes a monstrosity to older eyes. The Pelican audience probably has no idea this is going on, and concludes that because they don't see 19 year olds buying 911s and tuning them, they don't care about cars. The youngsters who care about cars are definitely out there, they just don't care about Porsches, or can't afford to.

An elite suburban town where old guys own "weekend Porsches" is not remotely representative sample of the 1000's tuner car kids now posting how to's on YouTube.

Also, what about pickup truck culture? It's not a thing on the coasts, but elsewhere lifting and modifying big American pickups is a huge thing.

2 years ago, I saw an ad for 2004 Subaru WRX STI 78k miles Java Black Pearl



Yeah, $21K for an Impreza? But it's had basically every performance part swapped out for an aftermarket improvement. I don't even know what half that crap is. According to that dyno sheet it makes 362hp.
What 2004 Porsche making 362hp can you buy for $21K?
I'm not trying to suggest this ricer Subaru is better than a Porsche, but to the kids who are into this stuff, the math is clear.

Years ago I had an illuminating conversation with a young co-worker. Kid was just out of the army, and was really into his Jap car (I forget what it was, maybe an Accord.) He and I chatted about all the mods he did to it, including some ludicrous audio system with multiple DVD screens in the headrests. I commented that I didn't understand why anyone would spend $15K+ plus modding an econo car to make it faster, when they could take that money and buy a used sports car that was already fast. His take was that it was cooler to mod a car to make it faster than a sports car (I didn't get into whether a ricer car could actually be "faster" than a dedicated sports car, but that wasn't the point. In his mind, something like a 363hp Accord is faster than a 300hp 911.) The idea is that "built > bought." As in, only old people buy a fast car, cool people build one.

As kids, we had the exact same underdog anti-establishment mindset. We all called it a “sleeper” car as we always dreamed about “putting a 454 into a Chevy Chevette” and “blowing the doors off some spoiled brat whose daddy bought for him”. Congrats, we are now the establishment. You and I don't think like that anymore. But lots of ricer kids do, and it's a dedicated car culture.

Car culture is alive and well, and perhaps bigger than ever before!
Were there car shows back in the 60s 70s or 80s with over 3,000 cars and 15,000 people?
I highly doubt it.

As a Subaru owner, builder and business, I'm just gonna have to clown your ignorance. A few of my customers.


We took the outright close wheel track record away from Loren Beggs at 911Design in his Fabcar beast (also a customer).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdXJYc4CpXA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70ACI_bbXck

Take your racist "jap" hating ignorance somewhere else you clown.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

If the housing market continues its rise, younger people wont ever be able to afford these kinds of hobby cars. I'm on the young(ish) side, and the roof over my head comes first. Though I know a few guys who have that part backwards... I know few people my age that own their home, and its close to concerning at this point.

It will all balance out. There will always be unbalanced Cities like S.F. and N.Y. but for the most part getting in the game is priority.
Good for you on priorities first. Buy the house and as long as it's a fixed interest rate, and you improve your income, after a few years you will have disposable income again.
Renters will never enjoy equity or a fixed payment.
Iv'e gone through it and patience is needed to succeed. Those who want it now and buy it all on debt will never get there.


vvv. Read this after I posted. Exactly my point. It takes time, but money for toys eventually happens for those who work for it.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I assert that this is exactly what happened to the G body market during the runnup a few years back. 5 years ago, go to a C&C and all 911 owners were over 40. Suddenly a bunch of 30 something’s started showing up in SCs and Carreras. They’ve paid down the house a bit, covered the wedding, maybe a kid. Now there’s a bit for a toy.

If you hang out in Rennlist, and even occasionally here, there were folks talking about financing a $30k used 911. And then daily driving it. These are those same Uber users. They don’t actually drive it to work. Just to the grocery and the gym and to grab the kid from the sitter’s. Then they hit c&c on Saturday morning and the Angeles Crest or Peak to Peak Highway afterwards.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

As a Subaru owner, builder and business, I'm just gonna have to clown your ignorance. A few of my customers.


Take your racist "jap" hating ignorance somewhere else you clown.

Matt, everyone knows that the State Car of Colorado, Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire is a Subie, as most people in these states and climes have long given up on Land Rovers and Range Rovers as suitable vehicles to transport them in the snow and mountains. Most people in these states love them for good reason. What's the alternative?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Yo Sal, I wonder how much of the perceived difference you noticed was psychological based upon your knowledge and expectation that Porsche refines the model line as the years pass? The reason I say this is that there is almost nothing different between those years in terms of engine performance (as I outlined earlier), and if anything, the 1987 should have handled better with the wider rear wheels and larger diameter anti-roll bars.

Did the 1987 have its catalytic converter still in place? If so, that definitely has a negative effect on acceleration/turbo spool (no cat in the 1978, but if an unmodified US model, the headers are terrible performers).

Did they both have their stock, POS turbochargers?

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Damn! I can't believe Raw missed pointing out this textbook case of forum buttsecks.

Pardon me, MountainMan, butt I got distracted by conducting my 930 tech seminar and then by the tingling sensation (no, not herpes, crabs and/or jockitch ) in my pants brought on by Tony V's pics above (they always do that to me). Butt in order to restore normalcy . . .

Originally Posted by JMS935

Ok. I’ll get myself edumacated then, my bad. Calling out Matt on his lack of knowlege, though, that is frickin hilarious! He’s the closest thing we’ve got to a Porsche encyclopedia on this forum.

***forum browneye cruising***

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

As a Subaru owner, builder and business, I'm just gonna have to clown your ignorance. .

Moron, I own 2 Subarus.
I was sticking up for the other makes, and saying they are a much better value than overpriced Porsches.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

IMO. The 78-79 is a better car if someone wants a driver to modify.
Bigger displacement, intercooler, better brakes and no dam Lambda.
I dig the fully analog turbo and fuel injection system. Tweaking it is a PIA and I love the challenge.

930XX is obsessed with the 78-79 and wants them to be more valuable because of the improvements over the 76-77 so badly that he is blind to the market results. He is irrational and the discussion is pointless.
Someday others may view them as more valuable, but that day is not today.

Yo Deez, when it comes to real modding, the Lambda fuel head is the better choice. For one, it is made of cast aluminum and is not susceptible to corrosion like the earlier, cast iron ones are. Also, the primary diaphragm in the Lambda head is a rubber compound that resists pressure spikes better than the metal version in the iron head (it can dent) - the negative of that, however, is that the rubber can be damaged by ethanol more easily than the metal one. Lastly, it has been demonstrated by Larry/Flow Tech, and others, that the Lambda head can actually be modified to flow more fuel, even with the smaller fuel lines being retained, that a modded cast head will (in unmodded form, the cast head flows more).

Yer welcome, bub!!!

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Right, and you must be new here, or you'd have known that it's inciting a riot, like showing up at the Women's March with a MAGA hat.

Yo SickRick, does MAGA stand for, "Make America Goofy Again"?!?! Sure seems like it the last couple of years!