Will Future Generations Want These Cars?

[pmax]

Originally Posted by piscator

Shopcat & Pmax, I'd like to understand the point you guys are making, but since I'm 'pop culture challenged' the only thing I know about Jerry Seinfield is that he's a television comedian who collects like Porsches.

Robert

I think 'pop culture' and fitting into the crowd plays a huge part here for the younger generation. Driving an old smog belching out of tune 50yr old car is likely going out of fashion in the day and age of emissions free vehicles.

James Dean, Newman, McQueen are "pop culture" icons in the Porsche world for their generation, even more so than Jerry, given the racing stuff, not just collecting. How many got into the hobby due to them ?

[piscator]

Thanks guys! "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee?" I'll have to see if I can find that on Youtube. I don't have a cable connection and live somewhat out of present time.

Robert

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by piscator

Thanks guys! "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee?" I'll have to see if I can find that on Youtube. I don't have a cable connection and live somewhat out of present time.

Robert

It use to be free on crackle, which is a terrible streaming platform that I assume is now out of business. And it was free on comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com but it looks like Netflix shut it down when they bought the rights. Netflix only now. Up until the last season it was really great, still decent and I'm hoping for a better second season on Netflix. He features his Porsches quite a bit.

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

It use to be free on crackle, which is a terrible streaming platform that I assume is now out of business. And it was free on comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com but it looks like Netflix shut it down when they bought the rights. Netflix only now. Up until the last season it was really great, still decent and I'm hoping for a better second season on Netflix. He features his Porsches quite a bit.

It started off well because he would interview people he was friends with and liked. I think the later episodes he/his producer would book who they thought were popular. In the episode with Zach Galifinakis it seemed like Jerry genuinely disliked the guy, he came off like a Hollywood douch bag too where Jerry always seems down to earth and laid back.

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

It started off well because he would interview people he was friends with and liked. I think the later episodes he/his producer would book who they thought were popular. In the episode with Zach Galifinakis it seemed like Jerry genuinely disliked the guy, he came off like a Hollywood douch bag too where Jerry always seems down to earth and laid back.

The Galifinakis "hollywood douche" is kind of a routine of his, and its polarizing comedy. You either like it or not. I happen to think that was one of the better Netflix season episodes, the Ellen one was hard to watch...

[piscator]

Originally Posted by pmax

I think 'pop culture' and fitting into the crowd plays a huge part here for the younger generation. Driving an old smog belching out of tune 50yr old car is likely going out of fashion in the day and age of emissions free vehicles.

James Dean, Newman, McQueen are "pop culture" icons in the Porsche world for their generation, even more so than Jerry, given the racing stuff, not just collecting. How many got into the hobby due to them ?

Pmax, You make a good point. The pop-culture heroes of my day, Dean, Newman, McQueen, were the existential outsiders. The guys in search of... something. Cars were often their focus, passion, or escape vehicle. Unless it was a western and then you had horses for that! ;-)

I take it you're suggesting that the iconography is different today. Instead of a Paladin riding off into the sunset you have, what? Heroes who fit in well? I really have no idea.

Robert

[gregwils]

My thought is that competing technology may draw the next generation away. Video games have replaced TV for young boys and teens - can you say 'Fortnite'? In fact, video has taken boys off of summer basketball courts, baseball fields and every other place. It's hard to predict.

There are also more direct competing technology. We think there is no replacement for the sound of an air-cooled 911, but would an electric sports car that vastly out accelerates, brakes, and turns an air-cooled 911 sway future audiences. Don't know. Time will tell.

I'm not in this as a collector, and could care less about what happens to the value of my car. However, price is probably the best indicator of demand and interest. Strong demand, prices flourish. Weak demand, prices languish. It would need to be measurably different than inflation to indicate a change in demand. It will be interesting to watch over the next decade or two. PS - at the recent levels of inflation it's about $1k/yr on a $40k vehicle.

[piscator]

Originally Posted by gregwils

My thought is that competing technology may draw the next generation away. Video games have replaced TV for young boys and teens - can you say 'Fortnite'? In fact, video has taken boys off of summer basketball courts, baseball fields and every other place. It's hard to predict.

There are also more direct competing technology. We think there is no replacement for the sound of an air-cooled 911, but would an electric sports car that vastly out accelerates, brakes, and turns an air-cooled 911 sway future audiences. Don't know. Time will tell.

I'm not in this as a collector, and could care less about what happens to the value of my car. However, price is probably the best indicator of demand and interest. Strong demand, prices flourish. Weak demand, prices languish. It would need to be measurably different than inflation to indicate a change in demand. It will be interesting to watch over the next decade or two. PS - at the recent levels of inflation it's about $1k/yr on a $40k vehicle.

Good points Greg, especially your comments regarding electric vehicles.

Roberf

[93nav]

On cars in general, not just Porsches. Where do the Fast-n-Furious, Drive (or is it Driver) movies, and Ken Block fit in?

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by 93nav

On cars in general, not just Porsches. Where do the Fast-n-Furious, Drive (or is it Driver) movies, and Ken Block fit in?

Paul Walker may have been our Steve McQueen if he had made it into the current instagram climate. Ken Block is only famous in the racing community, Drive (you mean the one with Gosling?)doesn't even come into the equation.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

Paul Walker may have been our Steve McQueen if he had made it into the current instagram climate. Ken Block is only famous in the racing community, Drive (you mean the one with Gosling?)doesn't even come into the equation.

Well, based on how they both died, I’d say Paul Walker was our James Dean.

[cassisrot]

James Dean was my James Dean, but Bruce Jennings turned me on to Porsche’s.

[watmough]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

I think both of these things are true. You are already seeing a resurgence of interest in “analog” mechanical devices. Not just among hipsters either.

I think technology will be the savior of our old cars not the death of them. The wealth of information on the internet is a huge asset to home mechanics. 20 years ago you would have to take your car to a mechanic or be taught by one. Now YouTube is my mechanic. Hopefully in another 20 years you’ll be able to have a set of pistons and cylinders 3D printed and shipped to your door the next day.

Engineers and designers are always going to want 911s. It's a car that is beautifully engineered and beautifully designed. There are plenty of other cars like that too, say old Alfas, Citroens, Peugeots and Mercedes, but nothing else combines the engineering, timeless profile, sexy hips and face of a 911.

I'll post up my own car at some point, still getting to know it.

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by JMS935

There are more than enough options to find financing, and at very competitive rates too.

I would love to learn of some of those options. While my experience is limited, as a dealer that provides financing, what I find is people with thin credit(low number of trade lines) lack of paid auto loans, revolving credit, short time on the job, existing debt... You are not going to get a good rate on a used car, especially something over 10 years old and definitely not on a 30 year old sports car with 100k+ miles. If they will provide financing on something like this, a person will need significant money down with strong credit and or a solid co-signer.

At least that has been my experience. Seriously, if you know of banks that will provide loans on 20-30 year old specialty cars to those without a great deal of credit history and existing debt, I would love to hear who they are. It would definitely help sell more cars...

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by David Borden

I would love to learn of some of those options. While my experience is limited, as a dealer that provides financing, what I find is people with thin credit(low number of trade lines) lack of paid auto loans, revolving credit, short time on the job, existing debt... You are not going to get a good rate on a used car, especially something over 10 years old and definitely not on a 30 year old sports car with 100k+ miles. If they will provide financing on something like this, a person will need significant money down with strong credit and or a solid co-signer.

At least that has been my experience. Seriously, if you know of banks that will provide loans on 20-30 year old specialty cars to those without a great deal of credit history and existing debt, I would love to hear who they are. It would definitely help sell more cars...

My comment was directed towards classic cars, typically defined as 25 years or older, there are several lenders for that. Just google it. Here’s one advertising at a 3.99% rate, I’d call that very competitive. You can’t do much better than that on new car financing.

https://www.lightstream.com/classic-car-financing

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by JMS935

My comment was directed towards classic cars, typically defined as 25 years or older, there are several lenders for that. Just google it. Here’s one advertising at a 3.99% rate, I’d call that very competitive. You can’t do much better than that on new car financing.

https://www.lightstream.com/classic-car-financing

I don't think he is arguing whether they exist, just that the qualifying criteria is not going to be kind to a 20 something (or anyone with no real credit history).

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

I don't think he is arguing whether they exist, just that the qualifying criteria is not going to be kind to a 20 something (or anyone with no real credit history).

Agreed, I never said it would be, just that it exists. Qualifying for any loan, whether it be a classic car or anything else will always be dependent on the borrower’s creditworthiness.

[piscator]

Originally Posted by watmough

Engineers and designers are always going to want 911s. It's a car that is beautifully engineered and beautifully designed. There are plenty of other cars like that too, say old Alfas, Citroens, Peugeots and Mercedes, but nothing else combines the engineering, timeless profile, sexy hips and face of a 911.

I'll post up my own car at some point, still getting to know it.

Good point. I certainly agree with this!

I'd enjoy to know which models of Alfa, Citroen, Peugeot, and Mercedes, you think fall into this category!

[piscator]

Originally Posted by David Borden

I would love to learn of some of those options. While my experience is limited, as a dealer that provides financing, what I find is people with thin credit(low number of trade lines) lack of paid auto loans, revolving credit, short time on the job, existing debt... You are not going to get a good rate on a used car, especially something over 10 years old and definitely not on a 30 year old sports car with 100k+ miles. If they will provide financing on something like this, a person will need significant money down with strong credit and or a solid co-signer.

At least that has been my experience. Seriously, if you know of banks that will provide loans on 20-30 year old specialty cars to those without a great deal of credit history and existing debt, I would love to hear who they are. It would definitely help sell more cars...

I'm not sure I see how financing comes into play here. Twenty years from now, would someone finance a 1970's Porsche 911? As a week-end car? A daily driver? I'm not refuting, just asking.

[ShopCat]

Originally Posted by piscator

Good point. I certainly agree with this!

I'd enjoy to know which models of Alfa, Citroen, Peugeot, and Mercedes, you think fall into this category!

Alfa SS, Alfa GTV/Stepnose, Citroen 2CV, Mercedes AMG Hammer, Mercedes 300td, BMW e30 M3 ect ect ect... All timeless.