Price Drops Here there and Everywhere...It Has Begun in Earnest

[Matt Monson]

[High Hope]

Originally Posted by pmax

Another ...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-porsche-carrera-2-13/

I've had good luck with some venues. On eBay I bought a one year old, 4,000m BMW 328x at a 35% discount from new. Flew into Ohio, did the deal exactly as agreed upon, and drove home to RI.

Bought two 356s at auction at Monterey Car Week, the first was good timing when I landed a sweet B before the Porsche market really exploded. I auctioned it the next year, same venue, and netted almost $10k, which I put towards a C. The C is gone, four years later I sold it on Hemmings website, not their auction. Up a bit but basically broke even.

A few years later my auction experience wasn't as good:
https://advrider.com/f/threads/classic-car-auctions-bidder-beware-a-tale-of-a-lesson-learned.1278337/

I sold a Fiat 124 spider on BaT, and that went smooth as can be. And, I recently bought an '80 911 Targa on BaT, which also went as planned. So, I don't have any beef with some of these venues. But, Buyer Beware.

[juanbenae]

high hope def got the boldened font memo.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

The other issue is that in any marketplace there will be good and bad examples. Some people are convinced BAT is a conspiracy that covers up flaws in cars by censoring the comments section. I no longer view BAT auctions and delete the emails, so I can't comment on that.

But, the haters are convinced that all cars on BAT are frauds, all prices paid on BAT are 50% above market price, and that Ebay is crap, CL is crap, and the only way to buy a used car is to troll PCA mags/events or one buy off Pelican forums (Yea, because people have reasonable asking prices at PCA events, LMAO) It is some form of old age paranoia and suspicion that is deep rooted in all aspects of life.

Funny you say that. I found you to be one of the biggest rah rahs on BaT for a long time. Pushing junk cars as cars of value. I have looked over nearly 50 cars sold on BaT in person many 964's but many other marques as well. For some reason many of them end up around me. Of all the cars I would say less than 5 were as advertised and were worth spending money on. Even the best were so so and the sellers obviously stretched to say the least the truth. We can go back to the turd widebody conversion with decals you raved so much about. That car would have been worth something if it was left alone. Instead the more money than brains club purchased it for double its value I can only assume to make a point. There is no way that car will ever fetch close to what it sold for.

I know the sister of the red Japanese import that pmax linked to on BaT sold by the same seller who has rave reviews by the BaT clan. The car was completely misrepresented. The 1 mil paint reading was actually 11 when I checked the car out and it had some seriously bad and quite obvious to the unknowing, paintwork. The owner is into the car for nearly $30k over what he paid for it and it still needs work. I can go down the list of a number of these and some were so bad that even $50k of money thrown at it still makes it a car that even Singer would pass on and yes BaT did cleanse some of the comments that should have remained. I can't imagine the advice you give to lurkers who haven't a clue I wouldn't trust what you have to say. You have on many occasions proven you don't have a clue.

I know a lot of private sellers and dealers and if you think what is paid for on BaT is too much you may be right although the cars I see sold privately with 0-little needs are selling for considerably more than anything on BaT. The difference is they spend $80-100k on an average mile 964 C2 coupe and have a later MY car that is in like new condition with little to no expense needed to fix up the crap people are not disclosing on BaT and other platforms.

So you can call me a hater I just call it the facts and yours IMO are skewed considerably.

[High Hope]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

high hope def got the boldened font memo.

I figured that no one would be interested in such a long post. So, I highlighted the venues that might be on interest, maybe one or two will read the whole thing.

[juanbenae]

kinda an inside joke around these parts regarding ponyboy911sc/mr. miagi/tony of CIS guru fame and his "drive the point home" use of the bold font...

[High Hope]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

kinda an inside joke around these parts regarding ponyboy911sc/mr. miagi/tony of CIS guru fame and his "drive the point home" use of the bold font...

ok, now i get it. I''m having a Bubba Burger.With onions, lots of onions. Hence, my grammar may be unusual.

[Mocker]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

But, the haters are convinced that all cars on BAT are frauds, all prices paid on BAT are 50% above market price, and that Ebay is crap, CL is crap, and the only way to buy a used car is to troll PCA mags/events or one buy off Pelican forums...

A veritable army of straw men. You're not very good at this, are you?

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Funny you say that. I found you to be one of the biggest rah rahs on BaT for a long time. Pushing junk cars as cars of value. I have looked over nearly 50 cars sold on BaT in person many 964's but many other marques as well. For some reason many of them end up around me. Of all the cars I would say less than 5 were as advertised and were worth spending money on. Even the best were so so and the sellers obviously stretched to say the least the truth. We can go back to the turd widebody conversion with decals you raved so much about. That car would have been worth something if it was left alone. Instead the more money than brains club purchased it for double its value I can only assume to make a point. There is no way that car will ever fetch close to what it sold for.

I know the sister of the red Japanese import that pmax linked to on BaT sold by the same seller who has rave reviews by the BaT clan. The car was completely misrepresented. The 1 mil paint reading was actually 11 when I checked the car out and it had some seriously bad and quite obvious to the unknowing, paintwork. The owner is into the car for nearly $30k over what he paid for it and it still needs work. I can go down the list of a number of these and some were so bad that even $50k of money thrown at it still makes it a car that even Singer would pass on and yes BaT did cleanse some of the comments that should have remained. I can't imagine the advice you give to lurkers who haven't a clue I wouldn't trust what you have to say. You have on many occasions proven you don't have a clue.

I know a lot of private sellers and dealers and if you think what is paid for on BaT is too much you may be right although the cars I see sold privately with 0-little needs are selling for considerably more than anything on BaT. The difference is they spend $80-100k on an average mile 964 C2 coupe and have a later MY car that is in like new condition with little to no expense needed to fix up the crap people are not disclosing on BaT and other platforms.

So you can call me a hater I just call it the facts and yours IMO are skewed considerably.

Anthony,

His repeated contrarian rants and contradictions along with his abnormal hatred of everyone over the age of his own, spells troll. He thrives on controversy while being wholly ignorant.

It's difficult to understand. Ever emphatic on a subject he's ignorant.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

kinda an inside joke around these parts regarding ponyboy911sc/mr. miagi/tony of CIS guru fame and his "drive the point home" use of the bold font...

Such as, you are a provocateur and a trouble maker!

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Such as, you are a provocateur and a trouble maker!

The good ole' times !

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Funny you say that. I found you to be one of the biggest rah rahs on BaT for a long time. Pushing junk cars as cars of value. I have looked over nearly 50 cars sold on BaT in person many 964's but many other marques as well. For some reason many of them end up around me. Of all the cars I would say less than 5 were as advertised and were worth spending money on. Even the best were so so and the sellers obviously stretched to say the least the truth. We can go back to the turd widebody conversion with decals you raved so much about. That car would have been worth something if it was left alone. Instead the more money than brains club purchased it for double its value I can only assume to make a point. There is no way that car will ever fetch close to what it sold for.

I know the sister of the red Japanese import that pmax linked to on BaT sold by the same seller who has rave reviews by the BaT clan. The car was completely misrepresented. The 1 mil paint reading was actually 11 when I checked the car out and it had some seriously bad and quite obvious to the unknowing, paintwork. The owner is into the car for nearly $30k over what he paid for it and it still needs work. I can go down the list of a number of these and some were so bad that even $50k of money thrown at it still makes it a car that even Singer would pass on and yes BaT did cleanse some of the comments that should have remained. I can't imagine the advice you give to lurkers who haven't a clue I wouldn't trust what you have to say. You have on many occasions proven you don't have a clue.

I know a lot of private sellers and dealers and if you think what is paid for on BaT is too much you may be right although the cars I see sold privately with 0-little needs are selling for considerably more than anything on BaT. The difference is they spend $80-100k on an average mile 964 C2 coupe and have a later MY car that is in like new condition with little to no expense needed to fix up the crap people are not disclosing on BaT and other platforms.

So you can call me a hater I just call it the facts and yours IMO are skewed considerably.

Seems like they mentioned paint flaws in the text and showed the paint meter readings on this car (shows 10 not 1). I was surprised this car sold for so much, but then again allot of people have bought into the 964 hype recently and look past possible issues even if there clear warning signs.

The presentations on all the cars that importer/seller posts on BAT are no bueno. Putting a car on a lift, taking professional photos and detailing a car isn't that tough/costly. But then again I guess the seller doesn't need to do these things after scrolling through his past auctions prices.

https://bringatrailer.com/member/simsimma/

[pmax]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

This buyer didn't get it either. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-carrera-38-2/

He will given the garage queen driver.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Seems like they mentioned paint flaws in the text and showed the paint meter readings on this car (shows 10 not 1). I was surprised this car sold for so much, but then again allot of people have bought into the 964 hype recently and look past possible issues even if there clear warning signs.

The presentations on all the cars that importer/seller posts on BAT are no bueno. Putting a car on a lift, taking professional photos and detailing a car isn't that tough/costly. But then again I guess the seller doesn't need to do these things after scrolling through his past auctions prices.

https://bringatrailer.com/member/simsimma/

The white car front left fender they show readings of 1 mil when it was actually 11mils and went up from there. It wasn't a bad car for the money and a slick top but he will be into the car for $80k if not more when he is done.

The issue with the 964 is so few clean coupes exist. With only 5106 C2/C4, manual/Tip coupes imported to the US (minus the RSA) with thousands of them parted out, crashed and or just really bad cars it leaves very few worth buying. All those that have a nice one aren't interested in selling. If they are they will only let them go for top dollar. Although the fools who bought as an investment are starting to run scared since they bought in at the height of the market so who knows.

The sad part is the cars sold by simsimma are some of the nicer ones I have seen. There were a few sold by others that made these look like great buys and had so many issues that BaT kept deleting posts about it was on the verge of criminal.

I do apologize for the rant about LimpSuga. I really wish I had the chance to go on the drive this past weekend and meet the tool face to face. In over 40 years of being around these cars he is clearly the most clueless owner I have encountered. Seems he has an endless repertwahr of pointless comments each out doing the last.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Such as, you are a provocateur and a trouble maker!

Originally Posted by pmax

The good ole' times !

not as bored up here as I was at the end of my bay area life so giving miagi the business is much further down on my list of things to do...

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

We can go back to the turd widebody conversion with decals you raved so much about. That car would have been worth something if it was left alone. Instead the more money than brains club purchased it for double its value I can only assume to make a point. There is no way that car will ever fetch close to what it sold for.
.

The car had $55k in documented service, not including widebody, wheels, new paint, and tires.
People were harping on a fog light lens and stickers. What a joke.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

The car had $55k in documented service, not including widebody, wheels, new paint, and tires.
People were harping on a fog light lens and stickers. What a joke.

Just because someone paid $55k to service a car doesn’t mean that adds $55k to the value, and if I stick new tires on my car I won’t get $2k more for it if I decide to sell it.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Cobalt
We can go back to the turd widebody conversion with decals you raved so much about. That car would have been worth something if it was left alone. Instead the more money than brains club purchased it for double its value I can only assume to make a point. There is no way that car will ever fetch close to what it sold for.

Link ?

Didn't realize Suga was part of the BAT crowd.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Just because someone paid $55k to service a car doesn’t mean that adds $55k to the value, and if I stick new tires on my car I won’t get $2k more for it if I decide to sell it.

Yes, but equally sometimes it does in fact mean you have added that in value and many multiples of it. Think of markets moving upward. Example: 2006, a buddy bought a track rat 1973RS out of Japan. All in after restoration $120,000. Sold for $360,000. Car sold again @ auction for $990,000. Today, it might be worth $750,000 to $800,000. Market rewarding restoration and servicing.

More to your point; I have $60,000 in my Carrera. In the current market that does not make it worth $60,000. Nonetheless, Some buyers are very aware of the ultimate cost of condition. If they wanted a Carrera with my upgrades they would be willing to pay $60,000 because they would understand and appreciate the expense of the modifications.

Your tires would fit that category in my mind. If you have new tires it is something the buyer would have to value as a premium over a similar car in need of tire replacement.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

The car had $55k in documented service, not including widebody, wheels, new paint, and tires.
People were harping on a fog light lens and stickers. What a joke.

The BS about the lights I agree with it was your comments about body filler and other aspects of the car that showed your ignorance.

The car was a hack job. I can spot this crap a mile away. The old school lap welded fenders were covered by decals most likely due to the shrinking filler that is already apparent on other parts of the car. Yet you insisted a car can have fenders welded. Body filler applied, painted and have decals applied in a 2 week period which any amateur knows that is BS. Try removing those decals and either the paint will peal off or the paint underneath is hazy. Paint and filler needs time to cure. It was already apparent in this photo.



The car had 174k miles with an early ringless replacement engine with unknown miles and no TSB addressed. The fuel lines were crimped improperly the car had 20 items or so noted by the PPI including oil leaks and IMO mediocre leak down and compression numbers. Two pot rear calipers painted red with BBS wheels and KW suspension. If you have wholesale access are not all that expensive. An interior an 8th grader can do with a roll bar that would probably hurt more than help. Bed liner spray used for the interior. 4 point harnesses and so much more wrong with the car.

Face it you and the others bought into the hype of fancy photos and flashy decals. All Poser stuff. Irrespective of how many things i can point out about the car that was rushed and done poorly it was driven hard and put away wet being sold as something it wasn't.

If you want to learn a thing or two I would be happy to help you out. Maybe it is the only way to get you from talking out your Arse. I am in North Jersey and work on these cars all the time from engine building to body restoration, suspension and more.

If this was remotely worth more than $60k it was a lot. At $90k all in that should make my build worth $200k or more and I know that I would be smoking crack to say I could get close to that despite the twin turbo 993 engine and short geared 6 speed box along with a plethora of truly expensive and top of the line parts. Although If someone wants to pay that much I will add whatever decals they want for free.