Price Drops Here there and Everywhere...It Has Begun in Earnest

[MAH77]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Can you cite code?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum= 10751.

VIN switching was very common with motorcycles in California and was a common way to sell stolen motorcycles.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by MAH77

Transferring a VIN from 1 chassis to another is illegal. It may have been common, but that doesn't make it legal.

As long as they are not trying to pass it off as a 72 using the vin from the 72 it’s completely legal. The legality is in the fraud..which the seller is not doing. Receipts should show where the front clip came from. In fact it probably would have been illegal to grind off the vin from the front clip, which is not the case. So there is no issue with the car.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by speednme1

So there is no issue with the car.

I wouldn't go that far, plenty of issues with the car. Like a salvage title car, if someone knows the story and can stomach it, then I guess buy it. But this one has got plenty of baggage, make no mistake.

---Adam

[MAH77]

Did you look at the listing? They're selling it as a 72, they have removed the A-pillar 1981 VIN tag and the lower dash numbers. The part about removing the lower dash stampings is what really makes the whole thing stink. There's no reason to do that unless they're trying to hide the original 1981 VIN number. Just because the seller is being partially honest about it doesn't make it legal.

Originally Posted by speednme1

As long as they are not trying to pass it off as a 72 using the vin from the 72 it’s completely legal. The legality is in the fraud..which the seller is not doing. Receipts should show where the front clip came from. In fact it probably would have been illegal to grind off the vin from the front clip, which is not the case. So there is no issue with the car.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I wouldn't go that far, plenty of issues with the car. Like a salvage title car, if someone knows the story and can stomach it, then I guess buy it. But this one has got plenty of baggage, make no mistake.

---Adam

Agree. Dodgy at best. Happening on BaT right now with another car, a 73 2002 tii.
Some people just don't care.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Agree. Dodgy at best. Happening on BaT right now with another car, a 73 2002 tii.
Some people just don't care.

The reason I brought up the salvage title car thing was because if you buy a car like this you have to remember that the killer deal you got is the same killer deal you'll have to give the next guy. I've tried to buy too many cars from guys who buy a car with heavy baggage and then get amnesia when it comes time to sell, telling you what Hagerty says it's worth. Like a B Cab I was going to buy once, had a 13XXX VIN, which is a replacement chassis, my detective work was that it was originally a Notchback, wrecked back, went back to the Factory, who sent it back out a cab. All well and good, but it will never bring regular cab money, too much baggage.

---Adam

[High Hope]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Where will this one end?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-porsche-911sc-27/

There seems to be a dislike of BaT in particular and auction sites in general. Why? As the owner of an old SC, I am quite happy to see that the cars still bring a lot of money. If you're not in the market, why do the auction results create such disparagement?

[gtc]

Originally Posted by High Hope

There seems to be a dislike of BaT in particular and auction sites in general. Why? As the owner of an old SC, I am quite happy to see that the cars still bring a lot of money. If you're not in the market, why do the auction results create such disparagement?

Basically all the same problems you would expect to see when remotely purchasing a previously owned item. Additionally, there is BaT pressuring sellers to lower their reserves so that more cars sell (generating more fees).

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I wouldn't go that far, plenty of issues with the car. Like a salvage title car, if someone knows the story and can stomach it, then I guess buy it. But this one has got plenty of baggage, make no mistake.

---Adam

Hey maybe you're right. If seller doesn't supply both titles then it becomes a buyer beware issue. Some States would just title the car with no issues, some States don't even offer a title for older cars while other Sates might give you a hard time. This is a sale that requires the right paperwork. It's nuts that so much work went into a car with questionable history. Hopefully the seller has the title to both cars.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by MAH77

Transferring a VIN from 1 chassis to another is illegal. It may have been common, but that doesn't make it legal.

"A chassis plate from a donor 1972 911T has been installed".

Sounds clear enough.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by High Hope

There seems to be a dislike of BaT in particular and auction sites in general. Why? As the owner of an old SC, I am quite happy to see that the cars still bring a lot of money. If you're not in the market, why do the auction results create such disparagement?

Orange went for $50K.

The 5 mph test drive must be a joke.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by MAH77

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum= 10751.

VIN switching was very common with motorcycles in California and was a common way to sell stolen motorcycles.

From code:
unless the vehicle or component part has attached thereto an identification number assigned or approved by the department in lieu of the manufacturer’s number.

I would think approved by the department is critical here....

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by High Hope

There seems to be a dislike of BaT in particular and auction sites in general. Why? As the owner of an old SC, I am quite happy to see that the cars still bring a lot of money. If you're not in the market, why do the auction results create such disparagement?

Lots of bitter people here. They hate progress and techno. They hate the youth. Same old ****.

BAT represents irrational mania, yet the same people will tell people to go buy a car from Porsche magazines like excellence ... Even worse crack pipe prices there. LOL

They don't understand that internet auctions have more viewers than a local pennysaver ad. And will have higher prices for convenience. Not everyone wants to drive 6 hours inspecting cars. It's called **** you money.

They all also hate Craigslist. I just bought a great car this weekend from a great seller on CL.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

The reason I brought up the salvage title car thing was because if you buy a car like this you have to remember that the killer deal you got is the same killer deal you'll have to give the next guy. I've tried to buy too many cars from guys who buy a car with heavy baggage and then get amnesia when it comes time to sell, telling you what Hagerty says it's worth. Like a B Cab I was going to buy once, had a 13XXX VIN, which is a replacement chassis, my detective work was that it was originally a Notchback, wrecked back, went back to the Factory, who sent it back out a cab. All well and good, but it will never bring regular cab money, too much baggage.

---Adam

Or is it too much cabbage?

[sugarwood]

The BAT hate reminds me of a friend of mine who always emailed listings of cars for sale at dealerships.
Every time, he would say what a rip-off price the dealer was asking.

The guy doesn't understand what a dealer's business model is.
I told him to stop shopping at dealers because you don't get private party prices at dealers.

People pay a premium for used car at a dealer for the convenience of browsing in a parking lot.
If you want to private party bargain stop going to the f****** dealer.
Pick up the phone and start going on weekend drives out of state for 6 months until you find your precious deal !

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Macroni

IMO, Conti Orange and condition sold this car.....

Especially the (mostly) original paint, as claimed.

Condition is driver ... "patina" plus other interesting details...

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Lots of bitter people here. They hate progress and techno. They hate the youth. Same old ****.

. . . .

It's amusing to see that on display in OT - whether it be music, cars, lifestyle choices, family living arrangements, the interests of youths, vices, etc., if it's not dinosaur era, it's not worth shiit on a shingle!

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Sure signs of a down market

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-Porsche-911-Carrera/392507395822?hash=item5b63438eee:g:EfgAAOSwwp9duP7 p

another bargain

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Porsche-911-Carrera-4-964-Coupe/293343681444?hash=item444ca55ba4:g:a24AAOSwPeRdwx4 S

too cheap to even discuss

https://www.ebay.com/b/Porsche-911-Cars/6001/bn_39440220?rt=nc&_dcat=6001&_dmd=1&_pcats=6013%2C 6001%2C6000&_pgn=6&_sop=22

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Porsche-911-RS/113988199863?hash=item1a8a39e5b7:g:lhUAAOSw9NJdgFB C

What is up w/ RSs? I didn't realize they were so strong.... a bunch on eBay all expensive.

Another ...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-porsche-carrera-2-13/

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by High Hope

There seems to be a dislike of BaT in particular and auction sites in general. Why? As the owner of an old SC, I am quite happy to see that the cars still bring a lot of money. If you're not in the market, why do the auction results create such disparagement?

The other issue is that in any marketplace there will be good and bad examples. Some people are convinced BAT is a conspiracy that covers up flaws in cars by censoring the comments section. I no longer view BAT auctions and delete the emails, so I can't comment on that.

But, the haters are convinced that all cars on BAT are frauds, all prices paid on BAT are 50% above market price, and that Ebay is crap, CL is crap, and the only way to buy a used car is to troll PCA mags/events or one buy off Pelican forums (Yea, because people have reasonable asking prices at PCA events, LMAO) It is some form of old age paranoia and suspicion that is deep rooted in all aspects of life.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

Another ...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-porsche-carrera-2-13/

There’s a huge premium on C2, non-sunroof manual transmission cars