Price Drops Here there and Everywhere...It Has Begun in Earnest

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

51k is unicorn collector territory.
That buyer can probably flip it for $60k.

For a targa with extensive & poor paintwork, oil leaks and possible accident damage. Although it had the original 85MPH speedo which is usually not the case I highly doubt it had 51k miles as most of these I see have had their speedo pulled or disconnected for many miles. I see < 50k mile SC Targa's all the time and yet to see one sell for remotely close to that much. Maybe a coupe but not a targa.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

unicorn for $60k.

Sugah you crack me up.....

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

For a targa with extensive & poor paintwork, oil leaks and possible accident damage. Although it had the original 85MPH speedo which is usually not the case I highly doubt it had 51k miles as most of these I see have had their speedo pulled or disconnected for many miles. I see < 50k mile SC Targa's all the time and yet to see one sell for remotely close to that much. Maybe a coupe but not a targa.

You got sugga’d, again.

[matt930s]

I really like that.

Originally Posted by wayner

hmmm...

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You got sugga’d, again.

I guess I have a sweet tooth.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

For a targa with extensive & poor paintwork, oil leaks and possible accident damage. Although it had the original 85MPH speedo which is usually not the case I highly doubt it had 51k miles as most of these I see have had their speedo pulled or disconnected for many miles. I see < 50k mile SC Targa's all the time and yet to see one sell for remotely close to that much. Maybe a coupe but not a targa.

You again miss the basic idea of how the market works. 51k is 51k. Your method of valuation is but one method. Just because YOU would not pay $48k for a low milage unicorn, that's doesn't mean others will not.

If I think a Gucci belt is only worth $10, but others pay $100, I am wrong on the value. THE MARKET IS NEVER WRONG. if I insisted the belt was only worth $10, I'm an idiot who doesn't understand how the fashion belt market works. The belt is worth $100 and I don't understand how belts are priced. This does not mean I don't understand belts, however.

The complex pricing reality exists regardless of your opinion (or ignorance) of it. if you have a one-dimensional view of pricing markets that's on you....The market has spoken. Mileage trumps everything in this particular car market. $48k is the actual market value and market doesn't matter what your solitary opinion is. Is your job to understand reality and operate within it. That means trying to understand why the market values that car at 48k, regardless of your personal feelings.

[BLACK3.2]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

You again miss the basic idea of how the market works. 51k is 51k. Your method of valuation is but one method. Just because YOU would not pay $48k for a low milage unicorn, that's doesn't mean others will not.

If I think a Gucci belt is only worth $10, but others pay $100, I am wrong on the value. THE MARKET IS NEVER WRONG. if I insisted the belt was only worth $10, I'm an idiot who doesn't understand how the fashion belt market works. The belt is worth $100 and I don't understand how belts are priced. This does not mean I don't understand belts, however.

The complex pricing reality exists regardless of your opinion (or ignorance) of it. if you have a one-dimensional view of pricing markets that's on you....The market has spoken. Mileage trumps everything in this particular car market. $48k is the actual market value and market doesn't matter what your solitary opinion is. Is your job to understand reality and operate within it. That means trying to understand why the market values that car at 48k, regardless of your personal feelings.

I mean, we don't come on here to purely discuss the market. This is an enthusiast forum, so there is an implied perspective. The problem with purely following the market is that you can't assume current trends will continue. The general consumer is fickle, however, and tastes change rapidly. Enthusiasts are different, with much more reliable tastes that are easier to forecast outward.

With the exception of the flippers on here, most of us are interested in persisting and not transient value.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

You again miss the basic idea of how the market works. 51k is 51k. Your method of valuation is but one method. Just because YOU would not pay $48k for a low milage unicorn, that's doesn't mean others will not.

If I think a Gucci belt is only worth $10, but others pay $100, I am wrong on the value. THE MARKET IS NEVER WRONG. if I insisted the belt was only worth $10, I'm an idiot who doesn't understand how the fashion belt market works. The belt is worth $100 and I don't understand how belts are priced. This does not mean I don't understand belts, however.

The complex pricing reality exists regardless of your opinion (or ignorance) of it. if you have a one-dimensional view of pricing markets that's on you....The market has spoken. Mileage trumps everything in this particular car market. $48k is the actual market value and market doesn't matter what your solitary opinion is. Is your job to understand reality and operate within it. That means trying to understand why the market values that car at 48k, regardless of your personal feelings.

Originally Posted by BLACK3.2

I mean, we don't come on here to purely discuss the market. This is an enthusiast forum, so there is an implied perspective. The problem with purely following the market is that you can't assume current trends will continue. The general consumer is fickle, however, and tastes change rapidly. Enthusiasts are different, with much more reliable tastes that are easier to forecast outward.

With the exception of the flippers on here, most of us are interested in persisting and not transient value.

Complex pricing reality.......Implied perspective..... excellent commentary this is why I keep tuning into this program.........

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Complex pricing reality.......Implied perspective..... excellent commentary this is why I keep tuning into this program.........

Question is does mileage trump condition on a used Gucci belt ?

[matt930s]

It ain’t that complicated.

Originally Posted by Macroni

Complex pricing reality.......Implied perspective..... excellent commentary this is why I keep tuning into this program.........

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by BLACK3.2

I mean, we don't come on here to purely discuss the market. This is an enthusiast forum, so there is an implied perspective. The problem with purely following the market is that you can't assume current trends will continue. The general consumer is fickle, however, and tastes change rapidly. Enthusiasts are different, with much more reliable tastes that are easier to forecast outward.

With the exception of the flippers on here, most of us are interested in persisting and not transient value.

It's also too easy to call the "market" the market. Just because one fool pays too much for a car (or a house, or anything) doesn't mean that establishes the market value for those commodities. We've all seen bubbles inflate and deflate.

This is where Sugar goes headlong down the rabbit hole and ignorantly astray. He postulates that if someone is willing to pay a particular price, that establishes the baseline to call it the market price. It's lazy economics, it's typical of his individual stupidity and it's wrong.

True marketplace dynamics are made with metrics such as medians, means and sample size, not isolated incidents or sales. Haggerty has a a better handle, they're just 12 months behind and their inputted data is questionable because of reporting sources.

Sugardope operates with an independent opinion or interpretation. He's like the purist that thinks the factory got it correct every time and the car should be maintained as it left Stuttgart.

I'll give the purists their due, as they have their place in the hobby.
Not so, our ignorant sucrose troll.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by matt930s

It ain’t that complicated.

Apparently, it is. You've got people who don't operate within the parameters of reality and live in an alternate dimension. They are foaming at the mouth with their BAT venom since they have absolutely no idea how the markets work and are angry about the dissonance of reality. They have no grasp on reality. Imagine an 80 year old causing a scene at McDonald's and insisting on paying 5c for a burger. No, better yet, imagine a vegetarian storming into McDonald's and demanding they shut down operations.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Apparently, it is. You've got people who don't operate within the parameters of reality and live in an alternate dimension. They are foaming at the mouth with their BAT venom since they have absolutely no idea how the markets work and are angry about the dissonance of reality. They have no grasp on reality. Imagine an 80 year old causing a scene at McDonald's and insisting on paying 5c for a burger. No, better yet, imagine a vegetarian storming into McDonald's and demanding they shut down operations.

Gucci belt huh ?



Had to google that.

Tell us you wear one.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

Would pet the first two (from the left, you bisches!!!).

Originally Posted by NYNick

. . .

I'll give the purists their due, as they have their place in the hobby.
Not so, our ignorant sucrose troll.

Yes, their place is to provide those of us who are not afraid to call Porsche out on their many design and build foibles, and then correct them, with a source of good laughs!

[dwelle]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

You've got people who don't operate within the parameters of reality and live in an alternate dimension.

ha! you looking in the mirror again, shug?

stay gold, pony boy...

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by dwelle

ha! you looking in the mirror again, shug?

stay gold, pony boy...

The ones who can not grasp reality are the ones moaning about prices that real people are paying in the real world.
I am 100% on board with the reality of the market, unless many clueless fools here.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

The ones who can not grasp reality are the ones moaning about prices that real people are paying in the real world.
I am 100% on board with the reality of the market, unless many clueless fools here.

Totally unless clueless fools.

[matt930s]

Unless idiots!

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Totally unless clueless fools.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

Would pet the first two (from the left, you bisches!!!).



Yes, their place is to provide those of us who are not afraid to call Porsche out on their many design and build foibles, and then correct them, with a source of good laughs!

A friend of mine was in the back of Max Hoffman's place for the Porsche Carrera School and the Porsche reps were also going over the changes from T1 to T2. My friend asked if they were going to fix all the things that went wrong with the T1, the mistakes. Wolfgang, the Porsche Rep, said Porsche never makes mistakes, they just sometimes improve on the design the next go around.

---Adam

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

A friend of mine was in the back of Max Hoffman's place for the Porsche Carrera School and the Porsche reps were also going over the changes from T1 to T2. My friend asked if they were going to fix all the things that went wrong with the T1, the mistakes. Wolfgang, the Porsche Rep, said Porsche never makes mistakes, they just sometimes improve on the design the next go around.

---Adam

That "never makes mistakes" line makes me think of the times when a topic/mod/improvement is being discussed in 911 Tech and someone pipes up with, "You think you know better than the Porsche designers", and I always respond along lines of "apparently so, have you seen the good thinking that went into things like head studs materials, wiring worst practices, turbocharger oil plumbing, turbocharger selection (ridiculous turbo lag for no good reason), valve guide material choice, exhaust system fasteners, etc., etc., etc.". For some though, the almighty, Porsche knows best, lore is the be all end all, despite data that says otherwise.