Which would you choose and why?

[rw229]

I have found two cars that I like and think I know which way to go, but throwing it out here to the forum...

Both cars are the same color and have the same options.

Both cars have good CarFaxes, not a lot of service records, but enough to support their claimed mileage.

Both will need to be gone through from end to end due to low use and sparse records.

Both are about the same (high, in my opinion) price from "reluctant" sellers that don't really want to negotiate.

Car 1
1986 coupe 30k miles
1 owner
Stated original paint
Within (long) driving distance

Car 2
1988 coupe 50k miles
4 owners
Original paint except for cosmetic on one quarter panel
Factory F/R spoilers, but not on the window/option sticker so dealer added or after
Far away, would need to be shipped

915/G50 is a non-issue for me, but the market/internet places a high value on G50s. I don't view cars as investments, but do think about the back end if I ever decide to sell.

So, assuming good PPIs... 1 owner, 30k, original paint 915 vs. 4 owner, 50k, painted panel, spoilers added, G50?

[Matt Monson]

Sounds to me like you need to go see them next. In light of that I would take a drive and a glovebox full of cash to see car 1.

PS, Carfax is useless on cars this old.

[Alan A]

Go with a paint meter...

[LUFTKUL]

I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I write this down on the chalkboard whenever I have an inkling of doing it again. No way, not happening.

[Ralph3.]

Price?

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by LUFTKUL

I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I write this down on the chalkboard whenever I have an inkling of doing it again. No way, not happening.

^^^OMG, this.

[rw229]

Thanks all for your input. I think Car 1 is the sensible choice, but it’s expensive and hard to ignore Car 2 given the market premium for the G-fiddy.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Sounds to me like you need to go see them next. In light of that I would take a drive and a glovebox full of cash to see car 1.

PS, Carfax is useless on cars this old.

I’m leaning towards Car 1 as well due to location, but trying to justify in my mind paying the same as an almost as nice 88. Car 2 actually put together a BAT like presentation, but agreed, you cannot replace seeing and driving a car in person... every car I have owned or driven in the series has been different.

Unfortunately, a glovebox full of cash means nothing to these folks.

CarFax is never a guarantee, but may pick up an incident and can help validate mileage, which in this case (low mileage, expensive cars) is valuable.

Originally Posted by Alan A

Go with a paint meter...

Yes. Paint meter is SOP nowadays.

Originally Posted by LUFTKUL

I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I WILL NEVER BUY A CAR I DON'T INSPECT MYSELF BEFORE PURCHASING.
I write this down on the chalkboard whenever I have an inkling of doing it again. No way, not happening.

I agree. Car 2 seller is very accommodating. Not seeing the car would be on me.

[sugarwood]

Given the same price, car #1 is the better deal.

Price action for unicorn mileage is a non-linear power curve.
You are incorrectly discounting the 30k miles of the '86.

Fewer owners, no body damage, lower mileage, more visceral gearbox.
The fact that it's within a few hours drive seals the deal.
Face to face transaction also saves you some shipping and other costs.

If you feel the price is strong, bring cash and negotiate.

Some buyers say they are used to a modern Honda gearbox, and that's why they prefer to find a G50. I'll suggest that the entire point of getting an air cooled 911 (and paying top dollar for the privilege) is to have a vintage "leather goggles" driving experience. No power steering. Suspension firmness opposite of "floaty sofa". Mechanical clutch. No nanny assist or stereo or DVD player or Navigation. An exhaust rumble. Even an oil dipstick! The very point of buying an old 911 is that it's nothing like your modern convenient Honda, and that it's different. In that regard, a 915 gearbox is more authentically vintage than a G50 anyway. The guy that wants a modern gearbox probably would not be happy in a 30 year old car in the first place, and might prefer a 997, right?

[Macroni]

Soapbox moment......

Love my 86.

[NYNick]

Let's not forget, they BOTH drive like dump trucks!

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by rw229

Thanks all for your input. I think Car 1 is the sensible choice, but it’s expensive and hard to ignore Car 2 given the market premium for the G-fiddy.



I’m leaning towards Car 1 as well due to location, but trying to justify in my mind paying the same as an almost as nice 88. Car 2 actually put together a BAT like presentation, but agreed, you cannot replace seeing and driving a car in person... every car I have owned or driven in the series has been different.

Unfortunately, a glovebox full of cash means nothing to these folks.

I’m not sure what you think I’m saying with that odd remark. I’m saying go prepared to buy the car on the spot if it checks out. What do you think I’m saying???

[rw229]

Makes sense and I agree. Thank you for your input.

Mileage, condition and location trumps the all mighty G-fiddy.

BTW, 997s are great, but I’ve decided I prefer the older cars.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Given the same price, car #1 is the better deal.

Price action for unicorn mileage is a non-linear power curve.
You are incorrectly discounting the 30k miles of the '86.

Fewer owners, no body damage, lower mileage, more visceral gearbox.
The fact that it's within a few hours drive seals the deal.
Face to face transaction also saves you some shipping and other costs.

If you feel the price is strong, bring cash and negotiate.

Some buyers say they are used to a modern Honda gearbox, and that's why they prefer to find a G50. I'll suggest that the entire point of getting an air cooled 911 (and paying top dollar for the privilege) is to have a vintage "leather goggles" driving experience. No power steering. Suspension firmness opposite of "floaty sofa". Mechanical clutch. No nanny assist or stereo or DVD player or Navigation. An exhaust rumble. Even an oil dipstick! The very point of buying an old 911 is that it's nothing like your modern convenient Honda, and that it's different. In that regard, a 915 gearbox is more authentically vintage than a G50 anyway. The guy that wants a modern gearbox probably would not be happy in a 30 year old car in the first place, and might prefer a 997, right?

I loved my 86 as well and would love to have another.

Originally Posted by Macroni

Soapbox moment......

Love my 86.

But they are “visceral” dump trucks!

Originally Posted by NYNick

Let's not forget, they BOTH drive like dump trucks!

I interpreted your bring “cash“ comment as a negotiation tactic. Obvious (now) that’s not what you meant.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I’m not sure what you think I’m saying with that odd remark. I’m saying go prepared to buy the car on the spot if it checks out. What do you think I’m saying???

[WPOZZZ]

How log are you planning to keep the car, and how many miles are you planning to put on?

[rw229]

I'm looking for a keeper. Sunday driver, maybe 1-2k per year.

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

How log are you planning to keep the car, and how many miles are you planning to put on?

[1979-930]

Aren’t both cars sold to someone else by now?

That would have been the case 4/5 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nathanbs]

Painting a quarter panel properly is no easy task. Where did they break the paint? Under the rain gutter? edge of rain gutter? top of rain gutter? What about the 2mm section where the rain gutter ends near the decklid? Door Jambs? Engine bay edge? Quarter window opening?

[speedster911]

Didn't assume the car with 30K has issues. yes they should be driven but this car would be the one I gravitate towards. As other have stated go see it, go see it, go see it, drive it, smell it, judge the seller, his garage , his home and his other cars. That will be a true barometer of what you are buying.

With low miles, check if rubber brake lines have been replaced as well as fuel lines. Find out what the 30K miles mean, did he drive it 100 miles a year and change the oil every year? Thats a different car than a car that just sat for five years. Both cars are " common" cars but the current low mileage and the miles you plan on putting on will make this a differentiation in the future.

A "reluctant" seller is also judging you. do they want to budge on their price? if they like you?- they may. If you truly love their car, a great connection with you, you truly knowing all about the model, year etc. goes a long way.

Good luck in your search- post photos of the car when purchased

[pmax]

Originally Posted by rw229

915/G50 is a non-issue for me, but the market/internet places a high value on G50s. I don't view cars as investments, but do think about the back end if I ever decide to sell.

The G50 will always hold a premium.

Your hand wringing about that is a non-issue since the difference is recouped (and probably more !) when you sell.

[rw229]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

Aren’t both cars sold to someone else by now?

That would have been the case 4/5 years ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Neither car is currently marketed for sale.

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Painting a quarter panel properly is no easy task. Where did they break the paint? Under the rain gutter? edge of rain gutter? top of rain gutter? What about the 2mm section where the rain gutter ends near the decklid? Door Jambs? Engine bay edge? Quarter window opening?

Good question and I will probably not find out as that car is too far away for me to see without a flight that is off the table right now.

Originally Posted by speedster911

Didn't assume the car with 30K has issues. yes they should be driven but this car would be the one I gravitate towards. As other have stated go see it, go see it, go see it, drive it, smell it, judge the seller, his garage , his home and his other cars. That will be a true barometer of what you are buying.

With low miles, check if rubber brake lines have been replaced as well as fuel lines. Find out what the 30K miles mean, did he drive it 100 miles a year and change the oil every year? Thats a different car than a car that just sat for five years. Both cars are " common" cars but the current low mileage and the miles you plan on putting on will make this a differentiation in the future.

A "reluctant" seller is also judging you. do they want to budge on their price? if they like you?- they may. If you truly love their car, a great connection with you, you truly knowing all about the model, year etc. goes a long way.

Good luck in your search- post photos of the car when purchased

Anything I buy will be contingent on my personal inspection. Both of the sellers have nicer cars and pass the smell test.

I am expecting to "baseline" the car and address all of the things that many don't consider on cars this old. I am amazed by the people who sell and buy cars on BAT that have 15 year old tires, original brake, fuel hoses, etc.

The sellers are definitely judging me. Fortunately, I have owned many 911s and enjoy talking to other enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by pmax

The G50 will always hold a premium.

Your hand wringing about that is a non-issue since the difference is recouped (and probably more !) when you sell.

The market does give a nice premium for the G50, but would that be your only criteria given my original post?

G50 vs. mileage and condition. Both are nice/great cars. In this case condition, location and provenance is probably the tie breaker.

[Matt Monson]

Pmax is the class clown. He’s not actually trying to help with those comments.

G50 gearboxes cost twice as much to rebuild as a 915 and have clutch fork boss issues that can break and need costly repairs. They are worth more but cost more to own long term.