Help with 930 Decision

[J-P]

Hey All,

Need some input and opinions on this 930 I am interested in. Beautiful, great color combo, 20+ year owner, well cared for, sat for a long time so he is having a very well-qualified P-car guy perform a thorough engine out service, which includes freshening and resealing the top end.

He is asking TOP dollar. Not the issue, necessarily.

The issue for me is this: He lost EVERYTHING related to the car. Original manual and dealer stamped service book, all service records, etc. He has nothing. At this point, one could say the car is TMU because there is no way to chronologically track mileage with records.

I have no plans to sell the car if I buy it. BUT, at some point in my life, in 3 years or 30, I will sell the car. My concern then is that a potential buyer will have the same concerns and it will be very difficult for me to sell it. A few oil changes and services during my ownership will in no way make up for the loss of over 30 years worth of provenance.

Wanted to get some opinions on the complete lack of records.

Thanks.

[Alan A]

You’ll have the receipt for an engine out right before you bought it. That - imo - has value.
You’ll have receipts for the stuff you do to it.
Still better than many of them.

Love the color.

[walt]

Records discussion just came up two weeks ago. Nice 930 with great color.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/1064043-records-value.html

[Matt Monson]

What is the mileage on it?

[J-P]

48k miles

The only other thing I can possibly say negatively about it, is it has a brown interior. Dark brown, which would normally be nice. But, I mean EVERYTHING is brown, LOL. Seats, carpets, dash, steering wheel. The dark brown with that paint color works, however.

[WPOZZZ]

The car looks like it has 1985+ sports seats in it. If it is factory, you can run a Carfax on cars from 1980+. That might help you determine true mileage.

[Bigtoe32067]

I wouldn’t pay top dollar for a car with out any evidence of upkeep and no proof of mileage. I’d pay whatever a tmu car that’s not had proper maintenance done is worth. Considerably less I’d imagine.
Get a really good ppi done by an experienced Porsche shop and ask them for a learned opinion on the mileage and evidence of past work done.
Good luck and beautiful car
Tony

Tony

[1979-930]

He wouldn’t get top dollar at an auction without documents. So why would you give him top dollar?
That’s some low miles and there needs to be backup.


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[speednme1]

The DMV where the car was last registered or inspected should have recorded the last mileage. Shyte happens and records get lost, condition should be the deciding factor. A ppi would be nice but if the engine is coming out for service including a top end by a well known reputable shop, you may want to hold up on spending that money on a ppi unless you want them to check things like the lights, brakes, ac..etc..etc. Run the VIN too(I believe you may be able to do this at the Porsche registry site), make sure the car is the original color inside and out plus whatever options it came with. Good luck on your purchase and if so, welcome to the club.

[shlobeck]

Yes that’s disconcerting, no good reason those booklets should be missing. These cars had a copy of the hood VIN decal in the maintenance booklet. It showed all the options too. I don't even consider the service manual as a document, it’s sorta like a part on the car, like wheels, seats etc. To me it shows a lack of interested in the ownership of the car, which could manifest in poor upkeep and/or maintenance. Ive seen a lot of neglected 930s where the owner maintains the car at the bare minimum. I’m making generalizations but nobody truly knows the history of the vehicle. AND that’s the problem. I had a meteor grey ‘86 930 I sold on pelican a few years ago. I sold it in a week. The history and documentation was always the first thing people asked about. Do you at least know where it was imported, dealer info? Agreed, as noted above, VIN should help you with that stuff.

I personally like the brown interior with Garnet, but that’s me. They made two brown interior colors in ‘86, “brown” and “buffalo.” With the reintroduction of the 930 to the US market porsche gave “full leather interior” as standard equipment. ‘87-‘89 usually had vinyl dashes and belt-lines. I’ve seen ‘86s with vinyl dashes too. I always like the small differences of the ‘86 over the later ‘87-89s; two tone rear reflector, super scoops, full leather, no hideous rear third light on the wing (‘87s).

I would pass on the car unless you get it for your price. If you’re an enthusiast that stuff matters, I love having the original windows sticker on my ‘79. They imported roughly 1400 930s in ‘86, they’re out there. Plenty more the following years too.

[Matt Monson]

At that mileage I too would want to records. Or a 20% discount for TMU.

[micah]

J-P,

Have you seen the car in person? Is the option sticker under the hood? Is the color listed on the sticker affixed near the inner right of the bonnet (your left, along the inner fender if facing the front of the car with the lid open).

Where did he have it serviced? The shop may have kept records. As Bryan noted, the Carfax might tell you something as well.

48k isn't that low of mileage, so I wouldn't start biting off on that. The lack of any kind of factory documentation (both manuals missing is quite unusual...) would be a deal breaker for me. This is largely because they made plenty of these cars, and the majority of them are not missing what I would consider basic documentation.

Porsche offered warranty repairs for 86s to replace the leather dashes with 87+ vinyl ones because the leather always seemed to warp. If this car has a warped dash I would factor that in as well, because a brown vinyl is probably much more difficult to find, and matching a brown leather re-trim to the rest of the interior is more difficult than it might seem.

[J-P]

Thanks to all for the responses. After lengthy discussions with the seller, I understand the reasons behind the loss of the documents.That is a big deal to me, especially at this price-point.

Without going into detail, the seller did not even realize the docs were missing until I started asking for them.

It is, however, a very nice car at the end of the day. I made what I believed to be a reasonable and fair offer taking the lack of docs into consideration. The seller does not agree with my assessment and I am currently no longer pursuing the car.

I think he will find that buyers at this price will all expect a high level of documentation. Or, he could get lucky and find someone willing to spend that kind of money who just doesn’t care.

The car carried a bit of a premium for me, as it wasn’t red, white, or black, colors that don’t personally interest me very much.

Anyway, moving on. Thanks again for the responses.

[Mocker]

Just curious, what year was it and what was the asking price?

[creaturecat]

the actual car is what it is, regardless of the paperwork, and, sometimes - in spite of the paperwork.

[J-P]

Originally Posted by Mocker

Just curious, what year was it and what was the asking price?

86, $115k.

[J-P]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

the actual car is what it is, regardless of the paperwork, and, sometimes - in spite of the paperwork.

Depends on one’s goals and objectives. At a certain (price) point, it is certainly reasonable to expect more out of a car and seller.

[Mehoff]

Originally Posted by J-P

Depends on one’s goals and objectives. At a certain (price) point, it is certainly reasonable to expect more out of a car and seller.

Nothing special about an ‘86, nothing special about 48k miles. Even if it’s an uber-rare PTS color, the car is way overpriced.

Congrats on walking away from a bad deal; sometimes that just as good as making a good deal.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by J-P

86, $115k.

I stand by my 20% off comment. But sounds like you’ve moved on. It is a fantastic color though.

[sugarwood]

What was your offer?
Do you have a link to the car for sale?

Seller is a typical idiot.
You don't get TOP dollar without the TOP dollar suite of accouterments.

Conveniently losing service history also can mean falsified history.