Turbo Carrera restoration project... Keep original or personalize it?

[JJK78-951]

Greetings everyone,

Finally about wrapped up with an unexpected 944 Turbo project and starting to get back into my 77 Turbo restoration, now i'm having a bit of a dilemma an looking for a bit of guidance from the community. Should I restore it back to original factory spec, or go ahead and make it my own? Here are more details and my thoughts...

The car is an early 77 turbo Carrera that is Black with a Cork interior, which is a nice combo for sure. They look amazing when properly cleaned etc., but I like to drive my cars rather than clean them so I prefer lighter colors. I am all about keeping cars original, but given that this one needs a full restoration I have been considering going that route, picking a nice factory Ice Metallic color or something like that. I also know that restoring a car back to original spec is the smartest thing for resale value etc. so I have tried to do a bit more research to help my decision and think I'm even more torn now than before!

I did some digging on the 930 turbo registry and given that it is not a complete list... but I originally assumed that Black/cork was a fairly common combo which does not seems to be the case. In looking at the numbers with a total of only 717 cars brought to the US in 77, just a handful of black cars imported and most of them are listed as having black interiors making this not as common as I thought... and thus begins my dilemma~


I recently purchased an original spoiler for the car thanks to a fellow Pelican Dwerkz (THANKS DAVE!!), and I really like the color it is painted which is Lindgrun. I also saw a newer GT3 posted for sale recently with the same color and I REALLY like it. So now i'm torn and have been contemplating all sorts of questions, some have obvious answers, others not so much...

Will I ever find another "common" early turbo to color change to preferred specs? Not likely.
Could I build any 911 to the specs I want? Sure, probably.
Would it be sacrilege to restore the car to non factory specs given its' rarity? Might be??
Do I put tons of time, effort and money into a project that ultimately is not my desired end result? In the name of keeping it original?


So guess i'm just looking for your feedback and trying to figure out what to do with the car. Any other information is welcomed, not sure if there are any actual production numbers by color out there as I could not find any, just the info on the registry. Including some pics below for eye candy and reference, the car had gotten the 964 turbo treatment, but can assure she's a 3.0 Turbo 🙂

Thanks!
John

[Matt Monson]

Do whatever the hell you want. One does not build a hot rod for resale. One restores a car for resale. These days there is a blazing hot market for hot rods. Right now hot rods sell for as much as stock vehicles, but who knows if that lasts forever.

It’s already modified with the intercooler. What else was done to hot rod. The question you really need to consider is here. Are you restoring it and need to go out and buy all that early stuff? Or do you have dreams of some 400whp monster that’s going to cost you $40-50k? Interior color and paint questions start in the engine bay for me.

[G450X]

I’ll take a different approach and start with how much disposable income you have - if it’s a great deal, I’d do what Matt suggests and do what you think would make you the happiest and build it.

If the money is a bit tight, and you think it might have to sell it at some time, I’d recommend a mostly stock build as they seem to consistently bring top prices. It’s in a nice color scheme as well which would help bring top dollar.

Good Luck, most people would love to have a “dilemma” like this…

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Do whatever the hell you want. One does not build a hot rod for resale. One restores a car for resale. These days there is a blazing hot market for hot rods. Right now hot rods sell for as much as stock vehicles, but who knows if that lasts forever.

It’s already modified with the intercooler. What else was done to hot rod. The question you really need to consider is here. Are you restoring it and need to go out and buy all that early stuff? Or do you have dreams of some 400whp monster that’s going to cost you $40-50k? Interior color and paint questions start in the engine bay for me.

Thanks Matt - I was definitely thinking along the same lines regarding pricing for hot rods... but right now just about everything is bringing silly money, may not be the case in the future. That said I don't think it will sell for pennies on the dollar either just because its' not the way it left the factory!
The motor itself is still stock non-intercooled, just had the intercooler tail on it which is gone now. I've already collected most of the early bodywork bits that were missing, spoiler was the toughest part! Wheels were long gone too and I've haven't had any luck sourcing correctly dated wheels. Car was an early build 9/76 so needs 16x7's & 8's which have been tough to find. Wasn't planning on hot-rodding the motor really, just bolt-ons as I definitely don't want to hurt the original motor! I've got a 996TT that is quick enough for now. Although nothing is off the table.
For the interior I haven't given much thought to, but I've always liked the Linen color interiors, as well as the old school Houndstooth cloth so was thinking maybe some combination on those.
I appreciate the input!

Originally Posted by G450X

I’ll take a different approach and start with how much disposable income you have - if it’s a great deal, I’d do what Matt suggests and do what you think would make you the happiest and build it.

If the money is a bit tight, and you think it might have to sell it at some time, I’d recommend a mostly stock build as they seem to consistently bring top prices. It’s in a nice color scheme as well which would help bring top dollar.

Good Luck, most people would love to have a “dilemma” like this…

Thanks man! It is a good dilemma to have for sure! Not discounting that at all I certainly don't have a great deal of disposable income, but I'm doing alright. That said I am a mechanic and while I can't do everything I have got quite a few connections so the building of the car for the most part should be parts costs and a whole lot of sweat equity. While I definitely love projects, this would be my first personal full restoration.

At the end of the day I am planning a top notch restoration... so I feel that future resale value would not be affected as much by customizing the car, but I may have a greatly diminished target audience making it a tougher sale. Hell when I posted about my 996TT some people were *****ing that I powder coated the calipers green instead of red! Can't make everyone happy, might as well make myself happy

Thanks y'all,
J

[Matt Monson]

Oops… I phone surf, leaving me looking at 2” pictures. I saw the big honking intake and didn’t notice it’s NOT an intercooler.

The interior color won’t matter much. The outside color could have a bigger impact on value. Black is a fairly rare and desirable color for the mid 70s. I’ve never got it, but some guys are gaga for black. A well done color change is also really difficult to do right. I suspect the quality of it will have as much (or more) influence on future resale than the color itself.

I’m going to get super subjective now, but me personally? I wouldn’t want to own a stock early 930. 260hp is ok, but it’s not really a high powered car. For me, this wouldn’t be the right car.

[RarlyL8]

You can do both.
Going full hot rod is a gamble as everyone (meaning potential buyers) have their own taste.
Going stock is not a gamble, it's a sure thing.
So, restore it back to 100% stock THEN mod the engine, swap out the seats and wheels, add any personalized removable do-dads such as a Momo wheel. The emphasis being that any mod is an easily removable bolt-on. The freshly restored OE parts that are removed can be boxed up. Now you have the perfect car to enjoy now AND later sell. You'll likely never have to put the OE parts back on unless you want to; just listing them as selling with the car will do it.

[911heaven]

I'll admit I know little to nothing about the vintage in question. Never brushed up against one. I myself would lean toward keeping the vintage and originality. Not long ago I did up a 69'E sportomatic and that was paramount to keep it original. Doing what you desire is also a once in a lifetime thing! You will only live once! High vs low production #s are to be be considered if for resale one day. 20 years ago I sold an RS 73 #101 and a 70 S both of which I didn't have the time to keep, muck around with or fully restore. Oh how I wish I could turn the clock back, but no chance. I'll be 60 years old this year. Fat chance of that!

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

The interior color won’t matter much. The outside color could have a bigger impact on value. Black is a fairly rare and desirable color for the mid 70s. I’ve never got it, but some guys are gaga for black. A well done color change is also really difficult to do right. I suspect the quality of it will have as much (or more) influence on future resale than the color itself.

I’m going to get super subjective now, but me personally? I wouldn’t want to own a stock early 930. 260hp is ok, but it’s not really a high powered car. For me, this wouldn’t be the right car.

Yeah those are my biggest concerns regarding the paint... I have also considered going ahead and painting it black, then having all the individual bits wrapped before assembly. That way if I sell it and they hate the color, it should just peel off right?

Yeah you're right about the power... I had actually considered building a nice carbureted N/A motor and slapping it in... that way you get about the same power without the turbo lag~
Thanks Matt~

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

You can do both.
Going full hot rod is a gamble as everyone (meaning potential buyers) have their own taste.
Going stock is not a gamble, it's a sure thing.
So, restore it back to 100% stock THEN mod the engine, swap out the seats and wheels, add any personalized removable do-dads such as a Momo wheel. The emphasis being that any mod is an easily removable bolt-on. The freshly restored OE parts that are removed can be boxed up. Now you have the perfect car to enjoy now AND later sell. You'll likely never have to put the OE parts back on unless you want to; just listing them as selling with the car will do it.

Thanks Brian! Yeah that is an option, only thing as Matt mentioned that there is no going back on is the paint... but I hadn't thought about a wrap til just now. Then I could put it all back to stock and modify or motor swap

Originally Posted by 911heaven

I'll admit I know little to nothing about the vintage in question. Never brushed up against one. I myself would lean toward keeping the vintage and originality. Not long ago I did up a 69'E sportomatic and that was paramount to keep it original. Doing what you desire is also a once in a lifetime thing! You will only live once! High vs low production #s are to be be considered if for resale one day. 20 years ago I sold an RS 73 #101 and a 70 S both of which I didn't have the time to keep, muck around with or fully restore. Oh how I wish I could turn the clock back, but no chance. I'll be 60 years old this year. Fat chance of that!

100% agree with keeping it original! I am a much bigger fan of refreshing cars rather than restoring them. As with anything vintage it is only original once. Unfortunately this car was way to far gone and everything needs to be refreshed so considering building my version of a cool Porsche That said this is a somewhat rare bird and don't want to take it down the wrong path which is why I started this thread!
Thanks man!~

I definitely appreciate all the input!
Thanks!
J

[Mocker]

Fortunately/unfortunately, you've got a car that has entered, even more than 930s made after 1977, the world of collectors. Buyers of 3.0L Turbos want one thing--originality--and anything you do that moves the needle away from how it left the factory will cost you not just the price of the mods, but also the "cost" of a lower selling price/market value.

This car will be expensive enough to restore to original condition, so my advice is to be smart with your money, and paint it black. The black/cork combo is rare and looks great.

Do it right, and you've got a $250k car. Mod it out with a color change and other "enhancements" and it'll be worth half that. The first option leaves you with enough money to sell this car and buy a 3.3L 930 you can paint the color of your choice and go EFI. The second option leaves you with no money left to do anything.

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Mocker

Fortunately/unfortunately, you've got a car that has entered, even more than 930s made after 1977, the world of collectors. Buyers of 3.0L Turbos want one thing--originality--and anything you do that moves the needle away from how it left the factory will cost you not just the price of the mods, but also the "cost" of a lower selling price/market value.

This car will be expensive enough to restore to original condition, so my advice is to be smart with your money, and paint it black. The black/cork combo is rare and looks great.

Do it right, and you've got a $250k car. Mod it out with a color change and other "enhancements" and it'll be worth half that. The first option leaves you with enough money to sell this car and buy a 3.3L 930 you can paint the color of your choice and go EFI. The second option leaves you with no money left to do anything.

Mocker seems to have a point here! I'm listening to him...

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by Mocker

Fortunately/unfortunately, you've got a car that has entered, even more than 930s made after 1977, the world of collectors. Buyers of 3.0L Turbos want one thing--originality--and anything you do that moves the needle away from how it left the factory will cost you not just the price of the mods, but also the "cost" of a lower selling price/market value.

This car will be expensive enough to restore to original condition, so my advice is to be smart with your money, and paint it black. The black/cork combo is rare and looks great.

Do it right, and you've got a $250k car. Mod it out with a color change and other "enhancements" and it'll be worth half that. The first option leaves you with enough money to sell this car and buy a 3.3L 930 you can paint the color of your choice and go EFI. The second option leaves you with no money left to do anything.

I don't recall inviting the voice of reason to this conversation... J/K! Thanks Mocker~
You make many good points. I wish I could keep them all but I'm not gonna lie, I'd rather have a 3.6T or 993TT...$250K would go a long way towards that goal. Damn.
I appreciate your thoughtful response~
J

Originally Posted by 911heaven

Mocker seems to have a point here! I'm listening to him...

Lol yeah he does... No doubt this decision is the best problem I've ever had for sure, appreciate all the responses!
Thanks
J

[NYNick]

I don't think there's a real question here as to which decision would create the best value.
The rest is up to your pocketbook and determination.

[Racerbvd]

It was funny, sad but funny. I remember when you could buy a really nice one, a concours 930 for $20K, the sad part is we took 2, threw buckets of cash to build 934 clones for the track
And both were silver, but one had a bright blue interior that I used on my SC cab, the other was black.

Had we taken the money that was thrown into those cars and bought a property and put a metal building on it, there still would not been enough to get done race cars and had a man cave, hang out shop to store everyone's cars, trailers, trucks and boats, plus that pair of 930s would be worth over a half million.
On the color, as others have said, stay stock, but you could have it wrapped. I saw this model at Porsche of Jacksonville this morning .

On the engine, again, as others have suggested, preserve it and put a 3.6 in. There is a early 930 in town with that mod.



I'd love to own this 3.6 powered 930.

[JJK78-951]

Dang Byron! If you could only go back eh?? That little green model is just about what I was envisioning!! That is a beautiful Turbo Carrera too~

As much as I would love to do it, seems like the smart money is on going back to black~
So maybe I go with a nice Acid Green wrap instead??
Is it safe to wrap a newly painted car? Guess as long as it is fully cured it should be ok right?

Thanks!
J

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by JJK78-951

Dang Byron! If you could only go back eh?? That little green model is just about what I was envisioning!! That is a beautiful Turbo Carrera too~

As much as I would love to do it, seems like the smart money is on going back to black~
So maybe I go with a nice Acid Green wrap instead??
Is it safe to wrap a newly painted car? Guess as long as it is fully cured it should be ok right?

Thanks!
J

Definitely let it cure, but you may find yourself liking the Black.
Here is the website for Porsche of Jacksonville (formerly Brumos Porsche)
https://www.porschejacksonville.com/
Talk to Jamie in parts, if you want one of those 1/43rd 930s. I am going to grab one my next trip.
Cheers,
Byron

[JJK78-951]

Didn't want to start another wheel thread so I figured I'd add it here! I picked up a set of wheels the other day hoping to at least get a good set of core wheels to refinish for my project. The listing was somewhat cryptic and only had a single picture of 2 wheels (pic below). The 2 pictured looked good, price was right and was not too far away so worth a shot~



When I picked them up they looked good but quite dirty and heavy brake dust on the back side. Apparently the original owner loved chrome wheels and so he changed out these factory wheels quite some time ago and have been in storage ever since.
Factory White 87 Turbo wheels!
7x16's & 9x16's
2/87 matching dates
SCORE!





Its' been a busy week so just had a chance to start cleaning them up this evening and WOWZERS!!! I can not believe how good of condition these are! Once I got through the heavy brake dust and started cleaning the "brown" stuff off, I realized that it appears to be factory Cosmoline~ Once I figured that out I just cleaned the heavy brake dust off and noticed that they have factory ink stamps on them, which I didn't even think they had as all I've seen have worn off~. Maybe it is because they are painted white, I dunno. All I can say is that I have 2 of them cleaned up and they are freaking amazing!









So obviously since these are not even correct for my car, it would be a shame to have them refinished due to their incredible condition. So I'll probably put these up for trade for a correct set of wheels for my project. I need 77 turbo wheels 16x7's & 16x8's. The car was an early build though so I need the dates to be prior to 9/76. If I can't work out a trade deal they may go to BAT or something.

It was a good week~

[JJK78-951]

After looking at the pictures I just realized the factory ink stamps are on the raw wheels before they were painted

[JJK78-951]

Wheels cleaned up very well! Amazing what a days worth of work with a Brillo pad and some aqueous cleaning solution can do! Can anyone confirm that the brown stuff is Cosmoline? It definitely comes off with a bit of scrubbing', but decided to leave it be for now.
Also started looks around BAT and am absolutely floored by the prices Fuchs are selling for these days! Almost unbelievable~ That said, after looking through all the listings I could find, I was not able to find another set of white Fuchs that have sold which seems odd.
Anyway here they are in all their glory:

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by JJK78-951

Wheels cleaned up very well! Amazing what a days worth of work with a Brillo pad and some aqueous cleaning solution can do! Can anyone confirm that the brown stuff is Cosmoline? It definitely comes off with a bit of scrubbing', but decided to leave it be for now.
Also started looks around BAT and am absolutely floored by the prices Fuchs are selling for these days! Almost unbelievable~ That said, after looking through all the listings I could find, I was not able to find another set of white Fuchs that have sold which seems odd.
Anyway here they are in all their glory:

I just might have a correct set of 7&8×16 Fuchs.

[andoni510]

If you ever decide to go with the Lindgrun color, I have a complete Green Leather interior that came off a ‘77 Turbo 3.0 in good original condition other than the front Sport Seats and top of Parcel shelf needing recovering. The sport seats are currently with the Upholstery shop to be restored with Dress McKenzie Tartan Fabric instead of the perforated Leather for the seat inserts. This interior would look killer with the Lindgrun Color.