Track car bargins??

Briana · 05-26-2006, 02:40 PM

So I now have the DE bug bad. I've used my 84 Targa (23k original miles) for three events and expect to use it for the remainder of the season while I try to improve the driver part of the equation.

I know I'll want a dedicated track car (or at least more track orientated) as I do not want to mod my original 84 Targa. I've thought about taking my 70T Targa parts car and buying some tubing and work on my welding skills. However everything I read said not to build your own car unless you want the experience, which I really don't have time for. People have said buy someone else's completed project for $.30-.50 on the dollar.

So my question is where do I find one of these cars at those kind of prices. Meaning, someone spent $40k putting together a great DE car and now wants to sell it for $12-20k. What I seem to see is guys that have "invested" $40k in the car and are now willing to let it go for $35k.

don911 · don911's Garage

I wouldn't bet on those kinds of deals. You hear that from the people that feel only a stock 911 has good value. Like any great car deal, in my opinion, you'd have to find someone who needs to sell the car and willing to take the hit. $25-$30K on a well set up track car that has over $40K invested is still a great deal.

I've got easily $40K in my 87. It is a daily driver but is set up for track. 930 brakes, 8/9 fuchs w/track tires, fuchs street wheels/tires. All elepahant racing bushings, 22/30 torsion bars, SRP adjustable sway bars. RS interior, recaro pole positions, schroth 6pt harnesses, roll bar....on and on.

I know I couldn't sell my car for $40K but I'd never sell it for $20K...unless I had to sell for some reason.

I think finding a well set up track car will take time to find the car just like selling a well set up track car will take time to find the buyer.

Jeff Alton · 05-27-2006, 01:21 PM

I agree with Don. My car will have well over 60K in it when it is done. If I sold it in the high 30's someone is getting a remarkable deal. But high 30's is a lot of money still.......

Cheers

SLO-BOB · 05-28-2006, 02:15 PM

Mines for sale. Check the Pelican classifieds under "72 911t race car" It's ready to go racing. $15k firm. 4 sets of wheels/tires, etc.

RaceProEngineer · 05-31-2006, 07:13 PM

Briana,

When it comes to track cars, or racers in particular, it is all relative. True enough, it is always economically smarter to purchase a racer on which someone else has done the development and paid the bills. However, that "bargain" of which you speak is often deceptive.

There are 911s on which $ 50,000 was spent, and which are a genuine bargain at $ 30,000. AND there are 911s on which $ 85,000 was spent, and which are not worth $20,000. Many Porsche owners simply "throw money at their car". For a race car, instead of targeting those things which make THAT car faster, they purchase every fad, and have it installed, and end up with a very expensive, quite heavy, and moderately slow track car.

Beside the expertise with which the car was built, and the true state of its development, a third important aspect to the "bargain" equation is SPARES (especially for a racer.) Slo-Bob above mentions FOUR sets of wheels with tires. To a novice, that may not mean much; but to an experienced driver, they are like gold!

From your post, it sounds like you may not be quite ready for a full-fledged race car, but if I am wrong, you might like to check out

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=282206

The difference between that and your stock Carrera is like night and day!

Best of luck with working through the maze.
Ed LoPresti

Briana · 11-01-2006, 08:31 AM

Still looking for a track car bargin.

John se · 11-01-2006, 08:59 AM

Porsche Track Car would be a money pit, Your gonna be bummed by the guys with the 50K engines blasting by you. Get a Formula Mazda for 20K, a real purpose built race car, modified street cars are always compromised and at the end of the season much more expensive that purpose built formula racing cars S2000, DSR, CSR, FC, F2000, FF.

SandyI · 11-01-2006, 10:35 AM

The best "bargain" in Porsche race cars would be the Spec 944 cars. For less than $20,000, you can be competitive.

Briana · 11-01-2006, 10:41 AM

I've been looking into Spec 944. Trying to understand ther merits of Spec 944 vs SP1 vs ITS. It sounds like Spec 944 is a strong series in the SW. I'm in New Hampshire so NHIS & Limerock are local to me, neither of which hosts Spec 944.

SandyI · 11-01-2006, 01:53 PM

I run with the POC and the spec 944 class is the fastest growing segment of the club because of the lower price point.

There's a growing spec Boxster class too. But you'd have to be in for at least $30,000 there.

What's your target price range? Less than $xx,xxx?

Briana · 11-01-2006, 01:56 PM

I think I'm on a spec 944 budget. $10-12k...okay maybe stretch to 15k.

SandyI · 11-01-2006, 02:42 PM

$15,000 minimum to be in the 944 spec. Best to have another $5,000 on top of that for things that break. And they will.

Don't know of any Porsche you can be competitive in on the track for less than that. Maybe a stock class 914?

deanslist.us · 11-01-2006, 05:20 PM

Are you looking for a DE/street legal car or a full-fledged wheel-to-wheel race car? You mentioned having the bug from a DE and all I mostly see are folks throwing full blown racing car ideas at you.

I actually just about completed a sale on this, but is it closer to what you are looking for?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=306295

North Coast Cab · North Coast Cab's Garage

Briana,
I sympathize with your issues. I have been looking for a race car for 6 months and have build a database of potential cars in the neighborhood of 50. The biggest issue I see is determining exactly what you truly want in the end. Start there and work backwards to available cars. There is no doubt that you'll pay $.50 on the dollar for anything already included on the car, but finding exactly what you want is very difficult. Building a car from cratch, no matter how good a deal you get, is just bad math. Hopefully you can find something close to what you want and with enought financial headroom to allow you to finish where you want to be. Search the old classifieds and see if the ones that fit the bill are still available. You'll be amazed how many of the cars never sold. It seems the "middle road" upgrade cars never sell. The owners put a lot of money in the cars and can't face the fact that the value didn't go up, and often goes down. They also don't have a good "home" for racing.

John

John se · 11-02-2006, 08:42 AM

once you start talking 15 to 20 K then that will get you into real racing cars see :http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/index.php.

converted street cars are always more money and dont work as well as real racing cars

Briana · 11-02-2006, 09:14 AM

Guess what I'm looking for is something for DE events, possible local racing (NHIS, LRP). I want safety features like full cage. Would like to keep it just barely street legal, though I think I'd get a trailer as well. I'd like to keep the initial purchase price of the car in the $10-12k range. That way if it does get balled up I can deal with the financial loss. Losing a $20-30k car is not acceptable at this point. I'm thinking of 944 turbos or 944 NA. The spec944 or 944 cup seem to meet the above criteria. Andrew's Carrera seemed appealing and I would have taken a look if it had been closer. Slo-bob had a nice early 911 that hight have worked as well.

racer · 01:51 PM

What you will learn quickly is that Race cars make terrible street cars and street cars make terrible race cars!

Find a track car of a fellow member near you, and try driving it on the street. Its tough. Its lowered. Its "louder". Climbing in and out of a cage? not so easy and not too likely that you can use the car as a legitimate "3rd" car when the daily driver is in the shop. They squeak. They don't fit over speed bumps or steep angles to get into parking lots. I know. I've been there. Fully tracked prepped '78 SC. Great at the track. Not so much fun anywhere else. Figure on needing a tow vehicle and open trailer to feel "comfortable", especially if something happens to the car.

Also, if you find a nice "low price" 911 SC. Put in a cage, do the suspension, alignment, brakes, new seat(s) and back brace, and at minimum the PCA CR safety rules requirements. So. Now you've spent at least $15K, but realistically closer to 20K. And, you have a car that still needs a complete motor rebuild to maximize the rules and have a shot at the podium. Ok. There's another 10-15K. ooops, motor blows after first event due to mis shift, or, get hit from behind in wet conditions or... now you've dropped 30K and still need a motor. In racing, its not IF you will have an accident.. it is "when" you have your accident. A bit pessimistic? perhaps, but not necessarily UNrealistic either.

Racing is not cheap. Never has been, never will be. I've seen plenty of $5k 944's spend that much or more to maintain and improve the cars year to year.

If racing is where you want to be, then get a dedicated spec racer. For this i would suggest SCCA. Maybe an old spec ford racer or formula ford. Purpose built racecars. Simple. Easy to fix. Not too heavy on the wallet.

Now. Since you have only started on the DE bug, I suggest controlling your enthusiasm and learning how to drive the car you currently have. If you like your targa, use your targa. Do you need all the latest and greatest equipment? no. Start with a good track alignment and a good set of tires. Maybe you change the seats for something more supportive. Then go learn how to drive. The quicker the better. It will allow you time to learn if this really is for you. It will allow you to see lots of other cars and figure out if PCA is what you want to do.. maybe its SCCA... maybe its Pro racing. A "stock" '84 Targa can still run 1:05s at Lime Rock. (the CR class leader for that car is likely running 1:01s in a coupe on Hoosiers, custom suspension, rebuilt motor etc.)

I would take the 1970 T parts car and part it out. Get back some money and put the money towards next season!

umfan866 · umfan866's Garage

I know of a an 87-89 red 3.2 / G-50 car prepared for the track
for 20k don't know if the guy sold it (Bay Area) but PM me for
his email if you want it.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

What are your goals? And what moves you? If you want to track a 911, then get a 911. A 944 is not a 911. If you like 944s, then that will work, but if you don't it is a waste of money (to buy something you don't really love).

If you love 911s, I'd find a well sorted SC or Carrera. You might find one that is prepped, but a stock one can be turned into a good DE car for not too much money....IF you spend the money on safety stuff and not go-fast mods. Roll bar, 5-pt, race seat. You'd be amazed at how fast you can drive a bone stock 911 if you know what you're doing...

KALLGREN · 11-13-2006, 06:13 PM

My stock '85 911 has gotten me a long way up the DE chain, buy it now before winter sets in so you don't beat your targa to death next year.

Spent all my time and money trying to learn how to drive; the stock configuration is still pretty impressive once you learn to really cook with the car, even with street tires.

My only changes, roll bar, 5 pt. harnesses and upgraded brake pads. Yoko ES100 all season radials.

If you are braking before marker "2" at turn 1 at NHIS, you are braking too early.... and you don't need a track car to do that. Plus downshifting into 2A and your car should pull like a mother into turn 3. Sure the body will roll like a bowling ball down a greased alley, but it will stick if you keep you throttle control judiciously applied ... and that, my friend, is the magic of the magic eight ball.

BK