73T value

[wicked9]

Hello All...
I am looking at a 73T with original (?) 2.4L motor, that may very well need valve guides. Original trans as well.
Clean body with exception of rust in seat pans..
Has S options and brakes. Very good paint not mint.
Upgraded chain tensioners and maybe covers.
Interior in very good condition, straight and true door panels and dash is without cracks, all glass and trim is very straight and clean.
No accidents, Not sure if it is original paint, but appears to be very nice...
Just trying to get an Idea for purchase price...
Thanks
Len

[wicked9]

C'mon, someone has to have an idea. I am going yo look at the car, 2 hour drive.. I looked at Bruce A's evalutatyons, as well as Manheim's. I would like to get a real world feel for what others would view as a good deal...

Thanks
Len

[racer]

A 73 T can range from crap to $$$$. Hows the front pan/suspension pick ups? Why a repaint? Accident signs? Original is nice, but how was it maintained? How do you intend to use it? (tear down for race car, daily driver, garage queen?)

[blau911]

My opinion as an early 911 guy who has owned a few and who has been in the market recently is that most 911T's rfange in price between $10-15k.
Besides what is mentioned above, the price also depends upon color, as well as mileage, as well as options. For instance, does it have Fuchs wheels, early recaro sport seats, sunroof. Also, color is somewhat important. What color is it? Most people don't want sepia. Alot of people seem to be hot for Viper Green and Blood orange.
Interior condition is also important. Does it have the original map pockets, radio, etc., or a CD player and RS door panels?

I would ballpark a good clean mostly or all original 72-73 2.4 911T coupe (with orig. MFI) at around $15-22k. Then there are the really nice ones which can command $30k and above. Those are fairly rare though. There is a nice looking silver 73T coupe in the For Sale of PP board section right now which Wayne has frozen because the seller has disappeared. He is asking $25k. That car (if it is what it is presented as) is probably worth $25k range, and if the seller ever shows up, he may have a few buyers lined up at that price.

[wicked9]

Thanks A LOT guys..I held off my inspection until Saturday.
I wanted to see what you all thought.
You have given my mucho stuff to look at...
I know the color is the Lighter *Pastel Type Yellow*
I will get a full work up and pics Tomorrow...
The only rust (Supposedly) is surface in the rear seat pan(s)
The interior is straight, no Sport seats. (I wish)
Wheels are Deep sixes.

Thanks big time guys...
By the way asking price is 14K, but from what I had originally seen, I offered 10K, but I will give it a fair look before deciding my final offer...

Thanks
Len

[blau911]

Len,
If the car is really as you described, the car has no other significant rust issues, and the engine is not in need of a rebuild, anything south of $14k is a good buy for that car.
Good luck....
If you want you can forward pic;s to me as well, and I will see if there is anything to pic apart. My email is interactivemedia@yahoo.com
Regards
P.S. Don't worry, I won't snake ya. I have plenty on my plate right now in the world of early 911's, and more importantly I don't roll that way.

[wicked9]

Blau911 Thanks.. I will do that. I am headed down there in an hour or so.
Wait until you see these PPI inspection Pics, I am showing no mercy.
As far as the snaking, no worries, I probably shouldn't be looking to buy it either, but with the prices of S/E models going through the stratosphere, I will have to settle for a T, if I want to have a early 911... So I guess this is a preemptive strike to keep from being left out in the cold...
Get this, as I know I am not the only one, I sold an no rust, matching numbers, S about 6 years ago. It had issues, but nothing like some of the ones I have seen..
At least I kept the wheels and Sport Seats from that car...

If I don't get it, I will forward the owner info to you all if wanted.
I have no connection, He is an associate, I just exchanged names with him, and asked that he let me know if he wanted to sell it..

We shall see.
Thanks
Len

[wicked9]

Originally posted by blau911
Len,
If the car is really as you described, the car has no other significant rust issues, and the engine is not in need of a rebuild, anything south of $14k is a good buy for that car.
Good luck....
If you want you can forward pic;s to me as well, and I will see if there is anything to pic apart. My email is interactivemedia@yahoo.com
Regards
P.S. Don't worry, I won't snake ya. I have plenty on my plate right now in the world of early 911's, and more importantly I don't roll that way.

Well... They hardly ever are like we want them...
The seller obliged me with getting the car in the air and dropping the motor and trans so I could look at the suspension and longitudinals, Brakes and underbody of the car.. I pretty much looked at all corners of the car (2 hours) I took off threshold pieces, trim pieces and all...

The left side of the car had the most issues...
The Motor and trans were clean and out of the car..(No biggee, because I had heard the car run before and would get to see it again as well as drive it before buying) I was able to see it and get the numbers off of them.. Trying to track down authenticity.
It did not look as if the case had been apart... Small amount of oil.
It looked pretty clean, but there is still the smoke at hard decel that concerns me.

The body:
1. Rust in the left rear seat size of a Half dollar..
2. Rust in the suspension plan, surprised him, because from the top it looked very clean.. I could literally put my finger through the bottom.. So it would definitely need to be replaced..
3. Passenger Door has rust bubbles in the lower corner next to the front fender.
4. Also bubbles at the right corner of the front cowl...
5. Also rusting at the this side Fender support.. fender would have to come off and this piece would need to be replaced.
6. The trim pieces are in great shape for 30 years old.
7. The glass is in good shap, few pitts hear and there, nothing I would be concerned with changing too quickly if at all.
8. The seals, some of them need to be replaced dry rot and incorrectly installed..
9. Definitely a repaint, but the original color and very well done.
10. Body is very straight, but It may have some bondo, If so it is very little of it..
11. All of the gaps are consistent and within the correct specs.
12. The doors are clean inside and no signs of rust, so I am thinking the bubles in the door were do to paint prep.
13.Hood is nice and clean..
14. All welded joints and seams seemed to be consistent with factory standard.. There were cracks at the end of the seems on all corners, they all had signs of rust building in those cracks..
In fact the corners and joints in more than a few spots on the car were starting to show some signs of rust.. They really need to be taken care of quickly.. They are not huge but you can see them.
15, Battery boxes were clean...
16. Fenders were clean.
17. Interior was clean and correct, visors (No plumpimg at all)
Roof liner straight and clean, rear seats and parcel shelp straight and correct.. Carpet correct but a little worn and dry.. I would replace it..
18. Seats are Leather with cloth inserts, very clean, but a little dry as well.. They will eventually crack.. may be able to condition them...Not sport seats
19. Wood footwells are intact and not separating.
20. original Becker stereo
21. Under dash AC, smogglers box, a little surface rust.
21. Dash has the preforated speaker, not the separate speaker grill, no cracks and very straight.
22. All components of the dash are there.
23. Door pockets straight, elastic is in tact..


S front and rear Sway Bars
S Front brakes
Cae has Aluminum rear Arms..
Front oil cooler under the car
rear ac condensor intact and on the rear deck..

No deep sixes, cookie cutters were on the car, but it has 15" fuchs on it now...
Front brakes are in good condition as well as rears calipers and rotors...

The car was taken care of pretty well, it was unfortunatey left outside for a period of time and it paid the price...
Some issues, but noy bad at all...
My question is.. Price, Is 14K (Firm) Too much for a T, that needs the attention that this one needs?
Honest answers and concerns are appreciated...
I think at 10K I was overly generous, especially after seeing the rust. 14K plus and additional say 5K to fix the other rust issues, even if the motor turns out fine, I would have paid close to $20K for a T... (Not insulting a T) I think I could find a S that needs a little help and have spent a little wiser...

What do you all think? Let him keep it or buy it?
I can't do any of the rust repair... Nor engine work, so I would have to pay for this to be done... Engine is a maybe, (Valve guides)

Thanks
Len

[wm711]

From my personal experience, rust repair is an on going process for many cars from the north and mid west. (I live in western Kentucky, HIGH humidity) I have followed this because I see you live fairly close to me in St. Louis. I hope to meet up with you some day. Once rust has set in, new areas must be addressed every few years. Cowl and fender support rust often are related to inner rocker rust, a difficult and EXPENSIVE repair. Outer rocker must be removed to repair the inner, and if one is involved, good chance the other side is at least suspect. If the owner has the inability to correct the problem, the cost, to me at least, seems prohibitive. I have done more than my share of rust repair on many 911s, and the initial expense of finding a rust free car, spending the extra $ on the front end is the best $ you can spend. Considering a car with rust, an unproven engine, on the ground... sounds like a lot or work. $14K, seems really expensive to me. Good luck- Bill Woods

[jkarolyi]

Let him keep it. Even 10K is too much for a T with rust issues like that. Plan a trip out to CA and drive one of our no-rust beauties back home to the rust belt.

[pwd72s]

That's really it...check the other thread on the topic of "why I didn't buy your car". I usually say it's all about condition on the early cars, and it is. But these days, if I were seriously looking? Well, the pickings seem to be awfully slim in salted winter roads country...I'm not saying there aren't any good cars in those areas, but you will look a lot longer than if you'd spent a week looking in a warmer climate.

[wicked9]

Thanks Guys, all points considered..
I think I should add that these criteria be for all parts of the Country, because this is a California Car.....
The rust probably resulted from poor preperation before the respray.. as far as the front pan, maybe the drainage was blocked up? At some point and time this car spent a little time outside and it paid for it..

At 10k, I totally agree that it was too much for that car, as the time and dollars would easily put the car above what I felt a T is worth to me.. It has some uniqueness to it, but not nearly enough for me to want to even give the 10K now....

If it comes up on ebay, I will definitely post the pics that I have of the damaged/concerning areas....
I will keep looking...


Bill Woods, over the years we have talked more than a few times, in fact You bought a few early parts from me...
Definitely have to meet in person some time..

All, this really wouldn't be my firsy early car, In fact it would be about the 9th.. Including a rather nice S car.. (Don't Ask )
I just had not had my finger on the pulse in regards to pricing, as I have sold the last 2 early cars much cheaper than I should have.

I am really looking for a S, so I will keep looking, A non matching, but abused S, as long as it is rust free.. That way I can make a pretty nice RSR clone... I have some true RSR parts that I am waiting to put on the car...

Thanks again.
Like all owners he thinks the car is cleaner than it is, and wants the world for it... Can't see past the $$$$ he has put into it, I can understand and respect that..Because I have been there myself, I suspect that either he will find someone that really has to have it or just keep it and repair it slowly... Either way he was a great guy to deal with and the car could be very nice...

Thanks
Len

[wm711]

Hi Len,

I am heading up south of Chicago tomorrow to look at a 73 T MFI car. It is priced at 12K, with a repaired pan, rebuilt pump, S trim, and some rather strange (ugly) seats! Dash crack... you know the drill. Originally red, now black, no carrera tensioners. Its a sickness that I have, that I fear many of us are afflicted with also. I sold a 72 3.6 project 3 weeks ago, with the intention of taking a few months off from cars, having just finished a 73 tii. Nice to hear from you! Talk to you soon-Bill

[wm711]

Len- check your PM, I want your opinion on a car-thanks-Bill

[wicked9]

Originally posted by wm711
Len- check your PM, I want your opinion on a car-thanks-Bill

Bill did you send the PM? I didn't get one from you.
Or is it the car listed above?
I wish I had been paying attention to the 3.6 project that you sold.... Yeah, I know about the sickness, my wife & daughters remind me pretty much everytime I raise the garage door.
Thanks
Len

[wm711]

Len-Ill try again via PM-Bill

[wm711]

LEN- pos. rusty. owner lied. is the one you looked at available? thanks-Bill- I will gladly pay a finders fee if its something I am interested in.

[wicked9]

Originally posted by wm711
LEN- pos. rusty. owner lied. is the one you looked at available? thanks-Bill- I will gladly pay a finders fee if its something I am interested in.

Figures.. The one I looked at is still in a negotiating pattern. However, I am hoping that He will see the light...
I will give him another week or so... If he happens to post it public, then I will definitely give anyone the pics that I have..
I will let you know what he comes back with.. I am waiting on his decision, or until I find something else...

Len

[scylla6]

The car you looked at does not sound that bad. Rust on the lower corner of the door is quite common and not that expensive to fix. The front pan, if totally gone is about 1500. If it runs good and feels right I'd say it was a good deal at 14. You have to realize that on all these cars there are always issues. If there were no issues they'd be 30k. Perhaps a rethink?
Tom

[wm711]

Maybe it was the perforated rust holes on both fender wings, rusty fenders, or the metal S spoiler that turned out to be fiberglass, or perhaps the holes on both rear seat buckets, or, just maybe the inner rocker rust. Perhaps it was the bondo cracking from a terribly repaired trunk, or maybe the accident damage to the left fender . Im uncertain which of these caused me to walk. I was a buyer until I found a perforated rust hole in a spot where I have never seen one. I can get you in touch...