For the record :(

[Scooter]

I found this thread on another popular Porsche website, where they were discussing their displeasure with the result, and I have to say for the record that I am very disappointed in the result as well. I am a capitalist like many others, but there is a good way and a bad way to do business. This is an example of a very bad way to do business. If you post something at a price, then you stick to your price; this is not an auction site like e-bay.

I have put the seller on my ignore list, so I will never buy anything from him. I don't care how good a deal is, I won't do business with people who I find unethical. If I can determine the buyer, I will do the same, because I think he acted very irresponsibly as well.

If I am completely wrong about the e-bay like mentality, and it is acceptable practice on Pelican, then I think that I may just not buy anything on the Pelican for sale board, although I believe the majority of sellers and buyers will agree with me. I hope that I am right.

[Furrymonki]

I have to admit, I would be irritated as well. BUT, the ad said $450 OBO - or BEST offer. In most cases, the best offer is lower than the original asking price. Perhaps in some cases, the best offer is above the asking price. I know a year ago when we were looking to buy our next home, it was unthinkable to offer at the asking price because we would have been laughed out of the room.

Now I know this is different than buying a home but if his ad stated that the tires/wheels were $450 without the OBO next to it, I would be very, very angry at offering the asking price before anyone else and losing out to a higher offer.

Just my two cents.

[Scooter]

I understand your point, but I believe it is generally understood when selling parts that O.B.O. does not mean it is an auction that will be sold to the highest bidder. It normally means that the seller may accept an offer less than the offered price.

For the record, I don't hate the guy (I don't even know him), I just personally don't agree with his sales technique, so I won't do business with him.

[Furrymonki]

I probably wouldn't do business with him either. I guess I have experienced this before and am not as surprised as some might be.

I have been in the position before of getting higher than original price offers for an item I've advertised. If no one else has come forward, I will sell it for the higher price offered. I have also had the ocassion where someone has offered the asking price before a higher price came in. If so, I sold it at the agreed on price, even if a higher one came in soon after. I would never go back to someone and say I received a better offer after telling him or her it was theirs.

[BK911]

Since you're asking for opinions...

If the seller accepted the first offer then changed his mind, that's unethical. If many offers came in and he sold to the highest offer, that's business. I realize this isn't ebay, but why can't the seller choose to sell to the highest offer versus the first offer? Who decides which way is right?

At the end of the day, like it or not, it's at the sellers discretion. This seller happened to think that an additional ~$500 put somebody at the head of the line versus somebody who just happened to see the ad first. I can't argue with his logic.

What if several people offered to buy something from you, and the last offer was from somebody you've done a lot of business with. You haven't committed to any offer yet. Would you give favoritism to the person you've had previous dealings with?

[Scooter]

I just do business differently, especially when it comes to Porsche parts. As to your question, I would sell to the first offer, as long as it is not somebody I won't deal with. I did this recently, where I decided to sell something that a few of my friends wanted, I went down the list in the order of interest prior to listing the item for sale.

I am not perfect by all means. I have taken a local offer for something after I had a ready buyer (no money changed hands), and the local buyer backed out on me. I went back to the ready buyer and gave him a discount, because I felt bad. I've learned from my mistakes. Sometimes it is all about karma.

What do I know, I also sell items for the same price I bought them for, if I don't end up using them, regardless of how much more I could have sold the item for. I don't like flipping Porsche parts for a profit.

Just my opinion, to each his own.

[jkarolyi]

I take OBO to mean just that, either above or below asking price. In CA, the asking price of a house was just the beginning...you often have to bid over asking to get the house. Nowadays, you offer less than asking and get it due to the soft market.

>This seller happened to think that an additional ~$500 put somebody at the head of the line versus somebody who just happened to see the ad first. I can't argue with his logic.

Sounds legit to me too.

[Chad T]

Well it looks like he realized they were priced at less than 1/3 of their value. Don't see how it's any more ethical it is to take advantage of such blatant ignorance of the value of something either. Looks like somebody offered him something closer to fair value and still probably got a good deal.

I'm sure it was disappointing to be the first to respond and not get the 7&8 X 16 Fuchs with Hoosiers for $450 but it shouldn't have been a big surprise.

It's not unethical to wise up before making a mistake. He should have probably offered them to the first responder at actual selling price but I'll bet there was a flood of PMs on this deal!

[Zeke]

This is a tough situation. Normally, the first offer at full price by the date stamp is entitled to the merchandise. If it's under priced, well the seller won't make that mistake again. Several have done this and carried through with the sale. However, the statement at the end of the thread, posted by Noah, but not written by him, makes sense. I'm glad I wasn't the author of that statement, though, for obvious reasons. But, I guess we need those kind of people, too.

I'd say write it off if you weren't directly involved. If the second poster on the thread wanted to push for legal action, he may have a chance, but again, I'd let it go.

I've had my scrapes here and been so pissed that I said I'd never come back.....twice. But, here I am; it is what it is. Sometimes the lowest common denominator rule prevails around here. I mean, it ain't church. We don't have to take each other out to dinner.

Just because I'd like others to smile at me when and if we meet, doesn't mean all feel that way. I'd say about half here don't and never will.

I've been brutally ripped off here twice. One seller will never come back, I'm pretty sure of that. The other damn well better never ever sell anything like what he sold me, or I'll come unglued and expose him for the"entrepreneur" that he is.

The best thing you can do about people like this is work behind the scenes and PM or email any potential buyers that post on their threads. That way, there is no dirty laundry hung out and the bad guys don't know you're sabotaging them. I've been doing this for 2 years.

[PcarPhil]

My $0.02:

I was the second poster. I happened to open up the Classifieds section at the same time the poster was posting the ad. I read it twice to make sure I wasn't mis-reading and realized this was a sweet deal. I offered the full asking price but eventually was passed over.

Wheels are sold, thread gets locked.

Sometimes I guess I just don't get it. I offered the asking price for the wheels and then I get referenced as a parasitic parts flipper. Now I'm the bad guy.

[techweenie]

$450 wasn't the 'asking price' as long as OBO is there.

However, if the seller accepted the price, then reneged, that's a problem.

[jkarolyi]

Ditto what Techweenie said.

Never thought I'd ever say that.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
Ditto what Techweenie said.

Never thought I'd ever say that.

I'd best do a screen capture!

[Scooter]

I still believe that in the normal course of business, listing an item $XXX o.b.o. does not imply the price goes up. It normally implies that if one believes the asking price (and I believe it was an asking price) is too high, then one can submit an offer at another price.

Now, if we take this one step further, any transaction needs an offer and an acceptance. Here the poster presented an offer and all it took was one to accept the offer to form a contract. The offer was $450 OBO (or best offer). The opperative word there is "or", meaning the seller will take either $450 "or" best offer. That means the offer was presented to the buyer for the amount of $450 and the buyer may accept the offer at $450. If the seller does not get a full priced acceptance then he/she will accept a best offer.

Technically, the seller should have listed the item as "reviewing offers above or below $450." The seller would then in turn accept any offer he/she wished.

[BK911]

$450 or best offer. Best offer was probably close to $950. Semantics.

I don't disagree with your opinion Scooter. I just happen to have another one though. Can't we all just get along?

[creator8]

I'm the seller who a couple of you will now choose to ignore. BOO HOO!

The way it went down is I obviously had a flood of PMs of "I'll buy", "I'll buy" at asking price due to my complete ignorance. One guy offered more--and to be clear it was nowhere close to the $950 mentioned.

I put him to the top of the list but he faltered on payment--wanted more pics including part number that I didn't have to hand. Not wanting to waste time, someone on the other site where I posted this had also matched that number and I countered with him to add something unique he was offering that I wanted. He agreed and payed in minutes.

Minutes after he payed I had an offer for local pickup for a couple of hundred bucks more than I'd already accepted. Had I been the no-morals-capitalist-pig I'm being made out to be I'm sure I could have come up with a story about wheels being stolen last night or something and refunded the actual buyer's Paypal, and taken the higher offer and not hassled w/ shipping--but I didn't.

I also had another posting with HREs for $500 at the same time. Those were obviously a good deal too as I had a bunch of interest. I sold them to the first PMer for asking price w/ a local pickup.

Perhaps I should have gone back to Kaefer as first PMer w/ a counter that I had $xxx on the table but I felt more obligated to the guy who had the eggs to step up on what was obviously going to be a good deal. I actually felt bad that I didn't sell to him in the end.

Given that the market price on a 15x8 Fuchs, I now have found out, is $450 per and without tires, let alone a whole set of wheels, I'd say I'm the guy out on this deal so I don't know what all the *****ing is about. To be clear I'm cool w/ the deal I got, but I'm little mystified by being made out to be the bad guy here. I also appreciate the posting by Noah.

Bottom line is this is a free market. Its up to the seller who's money he's going to take in the end. If all offers are equal I'll take the first guy in line provided he's a bona fide buyer. But if someone really wants something and is prepared to pay more and makes that offer, how's it fair to stop the seller from making the deal or put pressure on him not to. This ain't N. Korea!

[Eric-325I]

Asking for opinions, so here is mine:

The ad was listed as $450 OBO... Or Best Offer... I have always believed this to mean; 'The best offer I can get'. Sure, most of the time it end's up being a lower than asking price, but not always. We should be carefull about applying our 'usual experience' here.

He listed the items at a clearly 'ignorantly low' price, recieved a bunch of offers, no doubt in a flurry, and accepted the best offer.

I understand the dissapointment of 'losing out on a GREAT deal'. But; he did not reply with a 'sold' message either by pm, email, or another posting to you.

Seems he has not history of 'playing games' here... I vote to cut him a little slack... It's a good bet he will do some market research before listing in the future.

Lastly; I may be a sucker (wife says I am sometimes), but I would have felt uneasy about unloading that package from him at such a gerat price due to his ignorance. Just wouldn't be right.

Eric

[Scooter]

Originally posted by Eric-325I
I understand the dissapointment of 'losing out on a GREAT deal'. But; he did not reply with a 'sold' message either by pm, email, or another posting to you.

For the record Eric, I am not dissapointed of losing a out, because I was never interested in his wheels. This is not a pity me thread. I was merely commenting on a sales event I read about on a public forum.

I apprecreciate that the seller came forward and explained his actions. I appreciate even more that he didn't flame me for my opinion. The anti-flaming tells me a lot about the guy....even more than what he did. Although my feelings about the event haven't changed, my feelings about the guy have, so I have taken him off my ignore list. Creator8, thank you for your respectful tone in your response.

I believe this thread has outlasted its usefulness. Have a good day all!

[Zeke]

Well, the consensus seems to be that OBO means something I never took it to mean before. Now, it apparently invites an auction. The question is, since all auctions have a time frame, What is/was the time frame on this transaction? Since none was mentioned, is there some sort of general rule that I don't know about? OR is it just when the seller feels like it?

This new to me rule certainly makes me think I won't offer any full price purchases on any OBO listings.

[FenderGuy]

The statement at the end of the closed thread makes sense if your not a flipper and trying to get used parts at a reasonable price...

But that's not always the case in the used parts section...