Should I buy it? Slant nose conversion

[the]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Thanks for all the great responses and free education. The more research I do into "conversions" the more leery I become. Perhaps I would do better the start with a well maintained original. That being said what would be your recomendations for a starter Porsche in the 20K area.

Well, certainly there are more chances of "issues" with a car like the converted slant you are looking at. There is a lot of "re-engineering" that went into that car. Was it done well? Hard to know. That's why you need a PPI.

But as a general rule, it is not going to be as trouble-free, easy to work on, and overall reliable as, say, a 45,000 mile, all stock, '87 911 cab. To a lot of people, esp. those that want to tinker with the car, that's not a huge deal.

But if you want to spend $20-25K on a nice, fun 911 to drive, and not be a project, and you aren't hooked on having a widebody turbocharged slopenose cab, then you probably are better off looking for a nice, stock, unmolested 911 cab. $20-25K will buy you a nice mid to late 80s Carrera cab, with low miles, original paint, and maintenance records.

All 20 year old used cars involve some risk, but that would be your lowest risk option.

[jjflash]

Hey Tucker,

Originally Posted by tucker.smith

Below is a 1977 930 I recently purchased. The car is mechanically sound. I paid $16.3K; I am planning to convert the car to a sort of RSR-ish clone, which is the red car. To a "purist", the red car has also been butchered, but perhaps like the '77 cab conversion does for you, the red car makes my heart race. I did not want to buy an unmolested 930 and butcher it to make the RSR-esque clone, so I gambled and bought a molested car at a price I considered a discount to the market.

I wish I had paid $10-15K more and bought an unmolested 930.....

Hey Tucker,

Is this what you have in mind for the "disfigured" :-) 930?:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=369078



Pretty similar to:




It just sold for something less than $35K...

Originally Posted by tucker.smith

I do not have anything to do except drive Porsches and play the banjo, which I actually do for a living. It is nice to come home from a hard day's work in front of screaming banjo fans and do what is really fun - mess around with Porsches....

Well, I agree with Kokopelli and I don't want to hear ANY complaints about your lifestyle!! I picked some way back in the '70's then became a "luthier," and built guitars for awhile. Never figured out how to make a living, let alone one that would support multiple-Porsche ownership, at either one! As a picker wasn't near good enough; as a luthier--well that's a real VOCATION and I didn't stick it out.

Anyway, I checked you out on the web and the music sounds DAMN fine. And former guitar, banjo and mandolin champ....pretty impressive, even if it's only for Wyoming....

[Kokopelli]

Tucker - thanks for the advice and breakdowns on various 911's. I'v looked around a bit and really don't see any 993's in my budget out there, except for a 95 with over 200K miles - talk about driving the wheels off! I found this 964 which seems a decent value at 21.5K with only 42K miles but I can't stand those wheels - the fugliest wheels ever IMO. I've been lurking on Rennlist, Pelican and Autotrader - I look on e-bay but would be pretty hesitant to buy without a PPI so that probably wont work. Any other sugestions on places to look?

Description
This low mileage 1989 964 C4 Coupe with sunroof is Guards Red with black leather interior. The paint and the interior of the car are immaculate. It is entirely stock except for a K&N filter, and aftermarket chip and stereo. The dual distributors have been rebuilt and the vent kit has been installed. Brake rotors and pads just replaced. Must sell before move to new home. Records back to 1998. Email for additional pictures.

[Kokopelli]

Also found this 996 but it's clear down in FL.


Seller's Comments
BLUE/GRAY, CABRIOLET, FACTORY AERO BODY, 19" FOOSE WHEELS (COST $5,000), CARBON FIBER INTERIOR, RUNS AND LOOKS GOOD, REAR END MAKES A WHINNING NOISE AT HIGHER SPEED, BUT WORKS PERFECTLY. DOES NOT NEED TO BE REPAIRED AT THIS TIME. I HAVE DROPPED THE PRICE FROM ORIGINALLY $32,000 DOWN TO $25,000 FOR A QUICK SALE. GREAT LOOKING CAR WITH NO ACCIDENTS AT A CHEAP PRICE.

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Tucker - thanks for the advice and breakdowns on various 911's. I'v looked around a bit and really don't see any 993's in my budget out there, except for a 95 with over 200K miles - talk about driving the wheels off! I found this 964 which seems a decent value at 21.5K with only 42K miles but I can't stand those wheels - the fugliest wheels ever IMO. I've been lurking on Rennlist, Pelican and Autotrader - I look on e-bay but would be pretty hesitant to buy without a PPI so that probably wont work. Any other sugestions on places to look?

Description
This low mileage 1989 964 C4 Coupe with sunroof is Guards Red with black leather interior. The paint and the interior of the car are immaculate. It is entirely stock except for a K&N filter, and aftermarket chip and stereo. The dual distributors have been rebuilt and the vent kit has been installed. Brake rotors and pads just replaced. Must sell before move to new home. Records back to 1998. Email for additional pictures.

Kokopelli,

That's a very nice-looking 964. I would suggest you post this on the 964 forum here and on Rennlist and get some educated opinions. I'm certainly no expert, but I know the '89 964 is kind of a unique model in that the 4-wheel drive system is unique to that year and model and similar to the 959's. Later 964 C4's have a completely different setup for 4WD. If you live where there is winter, 4WD is probably a great option to have. In general, as with every model, 964's have a list of "issues" that you should be aware of, although it sounds like some of them have been addressed with this car.

At 42K-mile car and $21.5 asking price is seriously tempting if it checks out, etc., etc.

Those are the stock Design 90 wheels and I agree you could do better. A lot of 964 guys opt for 17" Cup (I or II) wheels and they are a definite improvement. Turbo twists would look good too, I think.

It would be interesting to start a thread on the 10 WORST-LOOKING factory wheels I don't think D-90's would be at the top of the list (928 "manhole covers" would be my vote)--maybe in 3rd or 4th place. They're more "blah" than really bad-looking IHMO.

Other places to look: Craigslist, Cars.com, Collector Car Trader, Hemmings, PCA website, regional PCA chapter websites. There's also a site that does a "mash-up" of various cars. He's posted on Rennlist and it's actually a nice tool: http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/ms.cgi . It combines eBay, Craigslist and others. I think he has the 964 model included in his choices.

HTH.

[racer]

The 1989-1994 964 C4s all has the same AWD system. Porsche revised the system (in complexity and weight) with the 993 C4 version.

Early 964 motors has some issues with heads not sealing properly and oil thus spewing out. With such low miles, I would certainly have a PPI done. Wheels can be changed. 964s us "new" offset wheels - meaning Cup I and Cup II wheels will bolt right on and look fantastic. Keep the D90s for snow or as anchors since only the VW crowd actually looks for them

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by racer

The 1989-1994 964 C4s all has the same AWD system. Porsche revised the system (in complexity and weight) with the 993 C4 version.

Well, I said I wasn't an expert.... My bad.

[aigel]

Looks like you passed on that conversion. I would not touch a car like that with a ten foot pole. All you have for records is the hearsay of the current owner. All cars are owned by rich doctors in Beverly Hills if there are no records to back it up. 24k will buy you a lot of unmolested Porsche. I am all for hot rodding and modifying, but I like to stop when the torch comes out.

Now for that 964: Wheels are easily changed. It's like passing on a nice house because the wallpaper is ugly. You have to look past things that are easily changed.

You should go with the advice above: Drive as many as you can and while you shop, save more money. You were ready to buy the slant for 24k? 6k more and you can get a decent 993!

Just my two cents,

George

[Kokopelli]

Yep I passed and basically came to the same conclusion about a 993. I'm just going to take my time and find the right one. I am kind of blown away as to how cheap the 996's are though. I keep coming across nice low mileage 99 & 00's in the low to mid 20's.

[aigel]

I would rather buy that slant nose than a 99 or 00 996! At least you will want to look at the later 996, if you are so inclined. Don't you think the later cars are huge? Have you seen an aircooled car next to a 996?

The 993 is the last air cooled car and still pretty manageable to service and work on yourself. Also, while it's more $, it is likely to hold it's value. The 996 may end up in 928 territory in 5 years from today. I remember people raving about the 996 hitting sub 40s a couple of years ago.

George

[Kokopelli]

I do like the 993 looks wise much better than the 996. I just need to find a 96-98 C4S with under 50K miles for around $25K - unfortunatly such a beast doesn't exist unless it is a salvage.

[aigel]

Not sure if I'd want the 4wd. And with the 2CS you pay 15k for an extra couple of inches.

George

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by aigel

Not sure if I'd want the 4wd. And with the 2CS you pay 15k for an extra couple of inches.

George

I live in snow country up a steep twisty canyon so 4wd would be nice.

[aigel]

Ok. Makes sense then. You get the big reds as a bonus if you go with the C4S. You are talking 45k for a decent example though. C4 will be much cheaper.

George

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

I found this 964 which seems a decent value at 21.5K with only 42K miles...

Description
This low mileage 1989 964 C4 Coupe with sunroof is Guards Red with black leather interior. The paint and the interior of the car are immaculate. It is entirely stock except for a K&N filter, and aftermarket chip and stereo. The dual distributors have been rebuilt and the vent kit has been installed. Brake rotors and pads just replaced. Must sell before move to new home. Records back to 1998. Email for additional pictures.

Kokopelli... Have you followed up on this one? With your budget as stated this certainly looks good. $21.5K is asking price.... 42K miles! And it's 4WD. Wheels are cheap enough to put something nice on it.

[Kokopelli]

No - I'm just not that turned on by the 964's. I'm going to save my pennies for a bit and find a nice 993. Besides I bought a modified 02 Volvo s60 AWD today for my daily driver and I'm picking up an 08 Mercedes C300 Sport 4matic tomorrow for my wife and I have another Volvo to sell so I need to take a break from buying cars for while - especially with quarterly taxes due in a week and property taxes due next month the wallet is going to be a bit tired and in need of a rest before the big Christmas work out. I'm thinking March before I get serious again - that way most of the snow will be melted.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by tucker.smith

I completely agree. To me there is nothing better than buying something so well below the market.
Tucker

You ( the buyer ) is the market on something like this. There are not exactly a whole lot of bids coming in for a car like this. Its also one of a kind and its built to the PO's wishes so "fair value" is very very subjective.

I am personally sketchy on any targa to cab conversion, but hey thats just me

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

No - I'm just not that turned on by the 964's. I'm going to save my pennies for a bit and find a nice 993. Besides I bought a modified 02 Volvo s60 AWD today for my daily driver and I'm picking up an 08 Mercedes C300 Sport 4matic tomorrow for my wife and I have another Volvo to sell so I need to take a break from buying cars for while - especially with quarterly taxes due in a week and property taxes due next month the wallet is going to be a bit tired and in need of a rest before the big Christmas work out. I'm thinking March before I get serious again - that way most of the snow will be melted.

If that's the case, would you mind letting me know where the info on the car is? You can email me directly at stp@pobox.com . I'd like to find out more about it. Or you can just post it here if you like. TIA.

[vicv]

Hi:

I was interested in this car, seen it in the dupont registry. The car is located in salt lake city and I had it brought to a Porsche dealer and had a PPI on it. Here's what I was told -- It pulls hard to the right when you stop, the A/C and heaters don't work. The front wheels hit the fenders when you make a hard turn. The car smoked , the right window sluggish, the top was binding, secondary air is cut off, left front strut not mounted right, hood hard to open hood need flat bar, lid struts don't work, rear engine mounts worn. I passed as I was not able to see it myself, but the decission is yours

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by vicv

Hi:

I was interested in this car, seen it in the dupont registry. The car is located in salt lake city and I had it brought to a Porsche dealer and had a PPI on it. Here's what I was told -- It pulls hard to the right when you stop, the A/C and heaters don't work. The front wheels hit the fenders when you make a hard turn. The car smoked , the right window sluggish, the top was binding, secondary air is cut off, left front strut not mounted right, hood hard to open hood need flat bar, lid struts don't work, rear engine mounts worn. I passed as I was not able to see it myself, but the decission is yours

No thanks!!!