$138K '74 IROC replica custom build from scratch

[DW SD]

Interesting opportunity here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=376646

Pretty cool build sheet, but nothing really exotic. Seems like a nice motor, but I would think more should be included. Also, I'm surprised that a full cage is not included at this price.

$138k seems steep to me, as I built a roughly similar car for $40k - ish, but did a LOT of work myself. My '71 tub has 930 brakes, limited slip, upgraded '95 3.6, fuel cell, welded reinforced chassis. I do not have the 930 trailing arms.

At $100 / hour, maybe it would have cost me another $100k? I didn't log my hours. Maybe he's negotiable

Thoughts? There is a good chance I'm way off as I don't know what full fabrication and one-off shops charge. The only relevant pricing information of which I am aware are Matteo's in his Excellence article and even those are somewhat vague. Seems to me like he got a heck of deal compared to this when you consider all the modifications, 6 spd, 964 pan, cooling / ducting, killer ITB 3.9L engine, etc, etc.

Doug

[pu911]

Doug,

I am with you, seems like a heck of a lot of money. I built a similar car professionally for a lot less money than that. Of course the devil's in the details and a lot of little things can really add to the build cost. Frank G. posted build costs for an extremely well done ST clone built by one of the top Porsche race resto shops in the country and it was less than $138K. I agree Matteos' car is a steal for all that was done. In the end it all comes down to what you want. The trend I see coming in clones is people making a very close replicas of a well known race car, these are being called tribute cars, for those of us that can't pony up the mil or two to buy the real thing.
Phil

[ZAMIRZ]

Who is this guy? He's going to build you an IROC replica in his "home shop" for $138K? On top of that he claims it won't be a 100-point concourse car? For that kind of money, it better be able to sit on the green at Pebble Beach and fool all but the most discerning....

[911teo]

Haha... yes... I forgot he quoted me saying I could have bought a GT3RS for $$$ invested...

I never added all the invoices (good thing) but we are in six digit territory.

Then again I spent a small fortune in parts. And the guys at Zuffenhaus were pretty busy with one off solutions.

I think this guy is a little optimistic, especially when you compare his project with this car:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=377059

Now that is a bargain. 72 chassis, clean title.... all new. Just the motor is worth quite a lot...
It could be a great start even for someone that wanted to convert it to street duties...

[911teo]

Originally Posted by pu911

... I agree Matteos' car is a steal for all that was done. In the end it all comes down to what you want. The trend I see coming in clones is people making a very close replicas of a well known race car, these are being called tribute cars, for those of us that can't pony up the mil or two to buy the real thing.
Phil

I wouldnt really call it a steal. I think there are not very many people willing to part with that amount of money for a modded 911.

But I agree with you on the replica/tribute car trend. And it is not only limited to Porsche.

There are 3) forces working at this... 1) the real race cars are becoming more and more expensive and locked away in museums.

2) modern cars are becoming more and more dull to drive. Everything is abt safety (rightly so) and this is diluting the driving experience.

3) Modern cars are looking all similar. Crash and pedestrian protection legislation, aerodynamic laws etc are all dictating the inputs.

So people are looking back at the glory days and will spend more $$$ on a sorted replica/tribute car.

I am willing to bet that such cars (even not extreme cars) will be more and more appreciated in the future.

In the UK for example there are 3-4 reputable builders that start with a G50 Carrera or 964 and backdate them to 73 RSR for $90k upward.

You might think it is crazy but in the UK a Mini Cooper S costs $55k and after a year depreciation is 33%.

I am slowly trying to figure out the market... I think it is still a little early... but I think there is an opportunity to make some $ doing what we love best...

...screwing around with the cars we love so much!

[pu911]

Matteo,
My point I know you spent a ton of money on your car but the mods go way beyond a "normal" RSR clone build. It's expensive to build a vision of what we all think our perfect hot rod should be. You really pushed the envelop and ended up with an awesome car, hopefully you feel as though you got your money's worth.
Phil

[911teo]

Phil

I know exactly waht you meant and you nailed it. My car is indead a steal for all the trickery and because it is so special to me. You cannot put a value on that.

What I was trying to say is that a passer by wouldthink twice before spending $50k on a clone/replica/tribute car, let alone the $138k that our hero is asking, no matter how many tricks tha car has.

Again I think when u get into those numbers it goes beyond the pure monetary value and it becomes the realization of a vision/dream that is worth much more than the sum of the parts.

Having said that I think the trend for the tribute cars is going to be up.

Like you said these are becoming more like an accessible way for normal guys to get close to owning the myths of our childhood.

[DW SD]

I did much of the work in my garage that this guy will do in his garage. I could do it much faster the next time around. And still it didn't take me that long, even building much of it twice. We're talking many hundreds of hours, but not thousands.

And while there is a premium to me on being able to choose your "trickery", I'm just amazed that someone would ask so much with the qualifying statements which he has provided (don't expect concourse quality).

To me, the value is all about level of detail and, again "trickery". I'm not in a position to do what Teo's fabricators did (remove the pan and install a 964 one as an example). That would be a helluva a task.

But neither is our hero in his garage. He's got a nice, simple build slated for $138k. I would think $75k would be too much to ask for that.

Heck, I'd consider doing one for $75k, if I didn't have a day job and child on the way.

Sad part of it all, is I don't think my car is really only worth the sum of the parts ($40k + ish).

I guess it never hurts to ask for the moon.

Even the blue and green car which Teo pointed out as an example still only has a 3.0. I don't think it will garner $42k as a sales price, though it would cost a shop $75k or more to build it.

I guess there are various levels of buyers:
1. those ready to pay retail price for exactly what they want, which is usually something very special.
2. those that will pay a small premium because they understand what it costs to build something unique (I am in this boat), but also still end up with a deal.
3. cheap ba$tards.

Doug

[911teo]

Anyway I think you can have a reputable shop (read Zuffenhaus) build a great car from the ground up for $60-65k with a decent amount of "trickery". G50, Elephant Racing suspension components, RSR/IROC look, stock 3.6 etc.

I have learnt a lot during my project and there are a lot of ways to cut costs where nobody would see it.

So if you are in business to build these cars you can do it...

But how many are you going to sell in a year? 2-3...5-6? And the margins? Even if you are a shop it's too skinny....

PS
Doug when is the baby due? Are you going to find out? Congratulations again and prepare for the ride of your life... Nothing comes close to becoming a father!

[pu911]

Doug,
I think your car is worth more than you think it is. Only way to find out is to put it up for sale. The devil's in the details, it takes finding someone who build car the same way.
Phil

[DW SD]

Originally Posted by pu911

Doug,
I think your car is worth more than you think it is. Only way to find out is to put it up for sale. The devil's in the details, it takes finding someone who build car the same way.
Phil

Agreed, but .....mine is not on the market.

Well there is plenty of devil in my car then :-)

I just remember when Rattlesnak went to sell his early wideboy with 3.6, 993 brakes (I think), suspension, fuel cell and got $26k or $29k. It was almost laughable.

I never saw his car up close. Maybe it was deserving.

Doug

[oliver07r]

Here is one you can buy,it has original race factory parts
http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17713