1974 Carrera E-bay sale

[Macroni]

Refresh me here. What are the negatives on the US car? The 165hp motor? Thermal system on the 75s? Rust, no worse than an early car. Weight?

[kilodawg]

Let's see the thread that keeps on going...

Macroni, regarding the negatives on the US car.

Of the ones you mentioned I'd say rust first but that applies to all the earlier cars. When I got my '74 (new) I just moved to Florida about 2 miles from the beach on the east coast. Even though it was garaged most nights within 3 years there was significant rust....

Next would be the emissions controls on the '75's.

Finally, for me personally, would be the fact that prices are now on a par (I guess) with some quality pre-74 T's and E's. However, for that money you don't get the longhood look but the impact bumpers and accordians that would remain for the next 15 years. In other words a far more common luck even if on a limited production car.

Since you can get basically the same look on a lot newer car and at the same time get a more bullet proof motor along with extra amenities all for less money (as of today) that would be another negative. This wouldn't necessarily chase away the buyer who really wanted that car but could very well influence buyers who were looking at a combination of factors...

Mark,

The Brumos '74 is hot!

However, to my eye what makes it really stand out is the color (I'm a sucker for the M&M colors) as well as the ducktail and the stripes....All of these can be found on the 73 cars...or are easily retrofitted to later or earlier cars with galvanized steel bodies and better motors.

Just no way that I personally would drop that coin on a '74 Carrera instead of another P-car option. But again that's just me. Don't get me wrong though if the Brumos '74 dropped in my lap I doubt that I would be looking to sell it...That may sound contradictory but I don't see it that way....To me an excellent example of any model is highly desirable.

Now one last thing, You guys have beaten me down and I'm still not convinced that you aren't all drinking from some tainted Kool-Aid but please don't tell me that you see Turbo-Look cars escalating in value (all things being equal) beyond Turbos. That's when I reach for the ejection seat handle.....

My opinion is that the early cars, the turbos and the 993's all have their advantages. People often ask me which one do you like the best and really the easiest answer for me is the one I'm driving at the time. It would be extremely hard for me to choose just one with the final factor probably being something really inconsequential in the context of how we have been talking like color for instance...

[Fidalgo911S]

Originally Posted by kilodawg

Call me crazy though but I would much prefer my longhood 73 T to a '74 Carrera. For me the longhood aspect trumps anything that the '74 bring to the table. To each his own I guess.

I love a good discussion about 74's.

The quote above is brilliant and explains a lot. Personal preference keeps a lot of people from liking the 74's. Most can't get beyond the bumpers. It's the bumpers. All other virtues are nil because of that. Like you said, it's the "longhood aspect" and all that it encompasses. Those two curved pieces of steel and their vertical components.

I can speak for both camps, just like you, because I've owned a few longhoods and only one '74S. I prefer my '74 to all my previous longhoods. That's just me. And so...(I know I'm rambling), it doesn't even raise my eyebrow that US Carreras are going for a lot of $$$. I think they're beautiful. To each his own.

Great thread. Kilodog, I can almost see you shaking your head with every new post.

[Fidalgo911S]

Seriously, look at it in a minimalist sort of way. This is a very clean line. Well balanced.

[Macroni]

I personally like the US 74 carrera and can understand the value increase.

The 75 I would pass on if the criteria was based upon keeping its originality. This would be due to the engine. I my mind it was just wrong! It represents a low point.

Given that.....if a 74 euro commands $80k logic would have a well preserved US74 valued higher than might be expected.

Kilodawg; Do not eject. Turbo's are great cars and from the performance perspective it is tough to debate if they are not in fact the best porsche produced. This week a 300 mile 88 turbo Cab sold for $109,000. Most of this value IMO came from the fact it was a 300 mile car combined with its uniqueness.

[kilodawg]

Macroni,

I guess it's trickle down economics Porsche style....'73 RS goes to $300K-$400K, '74 Euro Carrera with same motor as '73 RS goes to $100K plus so '74 US Carrera with same decals (just joking) goes to $35K-50K.....At some point the SC's and later Carrera's have to get factored in and when that day comes I'll be curious to see what happens to overall values.

Fidalgo911S,

Your comments are interesting. Minimalist......back in the day it wasn't considered that way. In fact, I recall considerable consternation with the design change in the Porsche community at the time. Back then it was considered another attempt at keeping the 911 alive for just a few more years until we would all be saved by the arrival of the 928.

In fact as we all know, that bumper was added as a result of US safety regulations concerning 5mph crash worthiness or some mumbo-jumbo to that affect. Porsche decided to introduce it across the line for both US and ROW cars. So it was in fact an add on not a take away which would have indeed been minimalist. Then there were those accordian rubber bits. How that coincides with a "clean line" would be a tough sell for me. Especially when compared to the earlier cars and to the later 993 which avoided such details...

Having said all that. I will be the first to admit that the bumper and those darn accordians (which take me more time to clean right after each wash than the bumpers on my other cars) have become completely identifiable to a majority of current 911 owners. It's a real case of history being rewritten by following generations. In this case it's in a good way but it's still viewed differently now than it was at the time..Again all of this is IMHO and I'm clearly on the defensive in this thread. However, I did own two '74's back in the day so don't banish me yet please

[Fidalgo911S]

Banish you?! Nonsense, I think everyone on this thread enjoys your point of view.

I just like stirring the pot when it comes to '74's - keep the blood up. I almost enjoy the frothing of the mouths when the whole '73-'74 transition subject comes up. It's good cheap entertainment

I'm a very non-discriminating Porsche fan. Longhoods, shorthoods, if it's clean and well-kept, thay all have admirable characteristics. Cheers,

Nate

[kilodawg]

I definitely agree with you on that....Actually for the ultimate in heresy my current dream P-car is a new GT3 RS. I'd settle for a GT3 but since it's a dream why not go all the way......In my dream it's Mexico Blue like my '74 Targa.

That car could fly and I mean literally fly.....

There's a good story behind this one and it was indeed my car.....

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by kilodawg

I definitely agree with you on that....Actually for the ultimate in heresy my current dream P-car is a new GT3 RS. I'd settle for a GT3 but since it's a dream why not go all the way......In my dream it's Mexico Blue like my '74 Targa.

That car could fly and I mean literally fly.....

There's a good story behind this one and it was indeed my car.....

Do tell........

I also would like a GT3....I also wouldn't mind a well preserved 74 euro Carrera.......
John Audette has an amazing euro. It is on his web site. http://www.audettegarage.com/euro_carrera/ Wow...he spells out the difference between the two cars quite clearly!

Kilodawg, I am finishing up a 73 3.2T; I have always admired your masterful detailing work. I will PM you so as not to disturb this thread.

Mark, Please describe your engine.

[rsnodgrass]

Where has the 74 2.7 Euro market moved over the last year? I've been watching but the market is so thin it is hard to get a decent gauge. Anyone know of any forsale in the US besides the silver/black one?

[CurtEgerer]

There's a 74 Carrera (USA) on eBay that is seeing some decent bidding action. The car looks solid and unmolested, but is a bit of a question mark and needs some cleanup/sorting.

Porsche : 911 - eBay (item 260754019947 end time Mar-27-11 15:54:46 PDT)

Since I now own a '74 Carrera (USA Nr. 386), here's my 2 cents A friend called and said he knew of one for sale. I wasn't even looking for another car much less a 74, but when he told me it was slate gray and non-sunroof, I suddenly became interested. I eventually bought the car but was a big doubter on the performance after reading all the negative comments over the years. That, and my other car is an early '71 2.5L hotrod. So PMOs and more were in the budget before I even went to look at the car!

Well, the performance has completely surprised me. The engine is stock (175HP) except for SSI's and an M&K 1-out muffler (sounds fantastic!). OK, the performance is not comparable to a 73 RS (I've driven a few). But it is comparable in spec to a 1972-73 2.4L 911S and nobody ever classifies those as a slouch The 74 Carrera w/ 175HP/174FT-LB vs the 72/73 911S w/ 190HP/159FT-LB (and the 72/73 911S, 73 911RS, 74 Euro Carrera and 74 Carrera USA all have the same compression ratio of 8.5:1 and run on regular octane fuel). With SSI's/M&K muffler, I'm guessing a 5-10HP increase on my car. So we've got only a 5-10HP deficit but a 15FT-LB torque increase and that's where you really feel it. Bottom line - I'm no longer planning any engine mods. The CIS (which is mechanical fuel injection, BTW ) is deadnuts reliable. It doesn't have the hair-trigger response of MFI or Webers, but it's more than adequate for the street and FAR superior to modern fly-by-wire throttles!

I also like the fact that Porsche only sold 2 cars with a ducktail - and the 74 Carrera is one of them

[Fidalgo911S]

Nice input Curt. Let me add one point. I have a '74S with the same engine and a M&K 2-1 as well. Last year when I rebuilt it, I had my cams reground to the SC profile. BIG difference. It has much broader range of power and pulls to redline instead of dropping off around 5K rpm's. Just really an incredible difference. It feels like an increase in HP but I can't say for sure.

So if you're thinking of another change to make to the engine, I recommend the SC grind.

Lastly, since I just did this a couple of weeks ago, check the CIS system fuel pressure. I was having some cold start issues and shuffling around 2-3K. I bought the check kit from our host, made a couple of adjustments and again, BIG difference.

Glad to hear positive inputs on CIS as well

[Fidalgo911S]

[CurtEgerer]

Nate - thanks for the tip on the cams. Also, are those window stickers available somewhere? -- Curt

[Fidalgo911S]

Curt, I bought the sticker off of Ebay a few years back. woodyscustomshop is the ID but I don't think he has any more.

Another thing I just thought of: my cold start valve gave up the ghost recently. I couldn't find a replacement any where. So I took a gamble and bought an L-jet version for a BMW 528i - perfect. No issues. Here it is and the price is a good fit as well.

BMW E12 E23 E24 Bosch Cold Start Valve 0280170032 - eBay (item 220715714521 end time Mar-26-11 21:08:08 PDT)