69 to 73 911

[periodr3]

I am looking to purchase a 69 to 73 for investment puposes, (go easy) where to start and what is a good entry point

[Macroni]

Right here in cars for sale; 2-3 good cars a week are posted. EarlySregistry is another great resource.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8

[periodr3]

I have read some of your other posts what is your expert opinion on buy and hold or buy restore sell.

[Macroni]

First, I must admit my "expertise" comes from the school of early car hard knocks and I paid for my education! I do have a passion for the early cars!

The important question is how much do you have to invest?
Are you going to invest "sweat equity" or checkbook equity?
Do you have mad welding skills?
Are you patient?

IMO, current affordable top tier cars are the Ss, Soft Window Targas and the very early cars [64, 65, 66]. Sportos, Es, sunroof Ts, low mileage Ts and SWB Normales appear to occupy the next tier. Then you have the non sunroof and targa Ts.

Hotrods are very personal and can hit any of the tiers depending on detail of finish. Cars w/ pedigree [Steve McQueen's S] command very stiff premiums. RSs also occupy their own space. Factory prepped race cars orbit the earth.

[periodr3]

I have the same passion for the early cars as well and finally have the time to devote to collecting.

As far as money could afford several of what you call top teir cars
can invest check book equity
can weld however dental skills are better
I can be very patient

I do not have a problem of purchasing now, restoring later or buying and restoring immediately. I have the garage storage for 6-8 cars with lifts.

Dennis

[Jay H]

I agree completely with Macroni's list of collectible long hood cars.

Don't forget the early 912 market. Once all the 911's are in the 6 figures, the 912 will be next. Very nice early 912's bring good money. These used to be throw away cars. A soft window 912 Targa is a desireable car.

I'll bet (and I might get tossed for saying this) that the mid year 911's (2.7 liter cars from 1974 to 1977) will also see a significant increase in value in due time. A solid, original, unmolested mid year is like finding a hen's tooth. These cars are not in your original year range, but might be worth a look if you can find a very, very nice one.

Mid year Carrera's are also moving up quite a bit in value.

Again, much more modern than you might be looking for are the the Club Sport 911's from the late '80's.

At this point, restoring cars is quite expensive if you can't DIY. Shops that do quality work worthy of a collectible car are few and far between and are booked up quite a while. Parts for these cars are expensive and hard to find unless you have a lot of time and good connections. My brother is restoring a 1966 911 with an original engine. He'll sink $40k in a hurry into this car with a fair amount of DIY work and still won't have a completely concours car. Add that $40k to the $10k bargin basement purchase price and it would be hard to recover that $50k invested.

[deathpunk dan]

To the topic starter-
Pick up the previous issue of Excellence if you have not already. It has a good article of 10 undervalued porsches to collect.

My guess: All 69-73 S models and MFI cars in general (S and E plus 72-73 T) will stay at the top of the heap, assuming similar condition. Next would be CIS 73.5s, then carb'd Ts and pre-T 'normals'. 68L would have to be in the middle somewhere too.

67 S is an altogether different animal.

74-75 Carreras

All soft window targas

all 912s, particularly the 1969.

73-74 914 2.0 and all 914/6 (didja see the 914/6 someone recently got for $12k...they could double their money without even washing it right now).

Edit: Another car to grab is a round taillight BMW 2002tii.

[techweenie]

There is investment and there is speculation.

It has been easier to do both in the recent runup in longhood values -- maybe easer than any time in the history of these cars.

But the future is dim -- as in hard to see.

Some of the runup was fueled by the HELOC/ATM phenomenon.

The market today is schizophrenic, with the 'best' cars continuing to go up and up, and everything else going random in sales and pricing.

Logic would say to go for an original, unrestored S or E Targa or Coupe with history and minimal rust. As the collectors will tell you 'a car can never be original twice.'

My advice is to prioritize it this way:

1. Good core. Straight, unrusted (or minimally) tub; good gaps. Take an extra set of eyes pre PPI.

2. Complete with all the model-appropriate pieces. While these can be replaced, the prices are going up on these pieces, especially '72 oil system parts and S oil cooler system components.

3. Original paint or original color repaint with no damage to paint or VIN tags. If the paint is a period color like the yellows, greens, oranges, ivories, etc., that's a plus.

4. Original interior, with an emphasis on a good dash. While there are replacement dashes, they are problematic (long story, research on tech BBS).

Many parts of these cars are interchangeable, irrespective of model (T, E, S). Learn to see anything that bolts on as a consumable. Obviously, you want to be able to retain as many of the original parts as you can, not the least of your reasons being that the washers, bolts, screws, clips, etc. are likely to be difficult to locate and reinstall exactly as originally assembled. These details make a lot of difference when you eventually wish to recoup your investment.

The intent to make money on a vintage Porsche is a dream realized by a lucky few. Find some of those folks you can network with and get their hands-on help.

[911SJT]

If you are looking for investment and good return you have to look for a T. E's and S's have already made their strong run up so you would be buying in late. There are still some very good deals to be made on the T's. Many still selling under value. Look to pay $25-$35K for a very good car. I know of several exceptional T's selling for over $60K, so the strong run up on RS's, S's and E's are pulling T values up.

It's all a crap shoot however. It least you can drive it and wax if from time to time.

I have over 20 early 911's in my collection starting with 65' and ending with 73's. I've been collecting them for over 20 years and I can tell you from personal experience, don't buy an early 911 in hopes to make a bunch of money selling one day. BUY ONE TO SIMPLY ENJOY IT. If it turns out at the end of the day you break even or even sell it for a profit, that's an added bonus of owning one. There are likely many other things to invest in to make money.

Best of luck.

Scott

[trev0006]

make sure no rust

[berettafan]

None of the above.

Go read SCM (Sports Car Market) and do some basic math on rate of return. This was done in a recent issue in regards to Porsches and the end result is there are FAR better places for your money if you want to invest.

On a personal note I believe people that just invest for the sake of turning a buck are/have been ruining the joy for a LOT of genuinely enthusiastic folks w/ normal incomes.

[deathpunk dan]

Originally Posted by berettafan

On a personal note I believe people that just invest for the sake of turning a buck are/have been ruining the joy for a LOT of genuinely enthusiastic folks w/ normal incomes.

cough early Something registry $500 hood crests....

[berettafan]

Ha! Could be a sticker on the hood for all i care!!!

I'd rather refresh my suspension for that kinda dough.

[periodr3]

My rationale is preservation of cars that I have a passion for without losing an arm in the process. Not adding to museum space because I can and like to spread wax. As far as a rate of return have you been looking at the market lately, taking a wee bit of a blood bath. Investing