VIN Question

[GotaT]

Hey guys, I recently saw this post on ebay and was wondering about information on this type of VIN . Only to be used as an "FYI" . Any of you see this before?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1971-Porsche_W0QQitemZ270281751979QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270281751979 &_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A131 8&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245#history

[911K]

It's just a standard 1971 VIN for a 911T unless I'm missing what you're referring to.

[GotaT]

So then If you were to decode the VIN what would you come up with as it has 6 "1" s in .....

Can it be decoded option wise?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

So then If you were to decode the VIN what would you come up with as it has 6 "1" s in .....

Can it be decoded option wise?

The first two 1's are from "911"
The next 1 indicates model year--'71.
The next 1 indicates the car is a "T"
The next 1 indicates a targa.
The next 1 is the beginning of the sequence number

Result, an almost "fake" looking but perfectly legitmate VIN. Can't decode options from the VIN, I don't believe.

[GotaT]

Any of you know what a Replacement California VIN TAG is?

How does this relate to a Porsche Value if the car does have a Clear title with this type of tag.. What does it mean?

[GotaT]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

The first two 1's are from "911"
The next 1 indicates model year--'71.
The next 1 indicates the car is a "T"
The next 1 indicates a targa.
The next 1 is the beginning of the sequence number

Result, an almost "fake" looking but perfectly legitmate VIN. Can't decode options from the VIN, I don't believe.

Thanks that makes perfect Sense..

Although isnt there a way to determine if you had an S package car including Guages, or Chrome/Gold lettering Sport(bilstein) susp or non sport...

... OR was this only checked by the person inspecting with full knowledge of the differences...

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

Thanks that makes perfect Sense..

Although isnt there a way to determine if you had an S package car including Guages, or Chrome/Gold lettering Sport(bilstein) susp or non sport...

... OR was this only checked by the person inspecting with full knowledge of the differences...

My understanding is the option code is not part of the VIN, (though it may be located somewhere on the car?) and the only way to find what the car left the factory with is to contact Porsche. The COA's, however, can be sketchy at best so their accuracy is in question. The engine and trans numbers can also give some clues to the cars originality, but not to the degree of sport packages, trim, seats, interior, etc.

As to the CA replacement VIN, they are legitmate issuances by the DMV once a car has been fully inspected an verified. What do they do to the value? Put it this way: It's better than a salvage title, it's better than a missing or mismatched VIN, it's worse than having original VIN's. It should certainly raise questions from a potential buyer.

[914agogo]

California replacement tag means that it was re-assigned or re-labelled
due to its original VIN plate tag missing or removed and not visible for roadside inspections.

[racer]

COA or original sales paperwork is the only way to validate original "s" equipment on a "T" or an "E".

[GotaT]

Originally Posted by 914agogo

California replacement tag means that it was re-assigned or re-labelled
due to its original VIN plate tag missing or removed and not visible for roadside inspections.

What would be cause for this removal/unvisible ?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

What would be cause for this removal/unvisible ?

Sometimes bodywork requires cutting away parts with the VIN. Sometimes overly zealous painters remove and lose a VIN tag. Having a reissue doesn't necessarily mean foul play. Plenty of legit opportunities to botch up an ID and have the gov. demand rebadging. Still, ask questions to find out why--it could change your value of the car significantly.

[GotaT]

How would one investigate this Replacement CA tag as to the reasoning?..

Just brainstorming .. What could it be if all 4 tags were missing and now having only the replacement tag in the door jam?

Theft Recovery? and if so how would this really effect its value assuming at this point its like Many other P cars who are labeled "hot rod Porsches" - Different rolling chassis to engine/tranny..

Appreciate all the input

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

How would one investigate this Replacement CA tag as to the reasoning?..

Just brainstorming .. What could it be if all 4 tags were missing and now having only the replacement tag in the door jam?

Theft Recovery? and if so how would this really effect its value assuming at this point its like Many other P cars who are labeled "hot rod Porsches" - Different rolling chassis to engine/tranny..

Appreciate all the input

Only a guess, as I've never done it, but I'd say contact the CA DMV with the VIN# and ask why it was reissued--they should have a record of the reissue and reason for it.

All four tags missing points to theft or major repair, IMO. Just changing engine and tranny from factory doesn't mean the car is "hot rod." Many are fairly original except for these changes and hold value as "collectable." A car like that would suffer a greater devaluation with missing VIN's than one which was truly "hot rodded"--body work changes, stripped interior, race set up, etc.

On the other hand, someone who is interested in a track car, a truly hod rodded car, or one he wants to create his own concept from with no concern about market value, would not be turned off by a VIN reissue on a car with no original #'s

[GotaT]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

All four tags missing points to theft or major repair, IMO. Just changing engine and tranny from factory doesn't mean the car is "hot rod." Many are fairly original except for these changes and hold value as "collectable." A car like that would suffer a greater devaluation with missing VIN's than one which was truly "hot rodded"--body work changes, stripped interior, race set up, etc.

On the other hand, someone who is interested in a track car, a truly hod rodded car, or one he wants to create his own concept from with no concern about market value, would not be turned off by a VIN reissue on a car with no original #'s

Just for further exploration, If the car has the missing/replaced tags and is in original condition minus the engine tranny configuration change then would this be justifiably still valuable. An original car with "upgraded" engine/tranny change is still a desirable car, so then if the car is not "stock" anymore then what would be the difference in the same type of changes to the car w/ a replacement tag.

They are both still a changed car according to when it rolled off the assembly line and both would still have a legitimate tag. How then would the values be different, if at all.?

--- interesting topic

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

Just for further exploration, If the car has the missing/replaced tags and is in original condition minus the engine tranny configuration change then would this be justifiably still valuable. An original car with "upgraded" engine/tranny change is still a desirable car, so then if the car is not "stock" anymore then what would be the difference in the same type of changes to the car w/ a replacement tag.

They are both still a changed car according to when it rolled off the assembly line and both would still have a legitimate tag. How then would the values be different, if at all.?

--- interesting topic

Rather than define "value" which is impossible outside of saying it's "what someone else will pay," I'll answer your question with another:

If you had two identical cars, as described above, but one had a reissued VIN but no original VINS, and the other had no VIN problems--which would you rather buy?

[GotaT]

I couldn't agree more! So what I was thinking early on was what you just said. The dollar figure is based on the buyer and vehicle attributes, and absolutely 2 identical cars Side by Side .. its only obvious. but when it comes to an actual Agreed Value then they would be the same.... as far as insurance and "avg retail" would be concerned.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GotaT

I couldn't agree more! So what I was thinking early on was what you just said. The dollar figure is based on the buyer and vehicle attributes, and absolutely 2 identical cars Side by Side .. its only obvious. but when it comes to an actual Agreed Value then they would be the same.... as far as insurance and "avg retail" would be concerned.

Not necessarily. "Agreed Value" with respect to insurance is still the same as agreed value with a buyer, it's just that the insurance company is only a potential buyer and, in reality, they do not scrutinize the car as thoroughly as someone who will actually take ownership. If a car's "ducks are in a row", including legitimate VIN's, the insurance company will be satisfied.

What it comes down to, IMO, is how open one wants to be with disclosure of reissued VIN's, and how agressive the insurance agent wants to be with researching the current market for a particular car. One could argue a reissued VIN is a recognition by the state that the car is what it claims to be and is, therefore, identical to a car with original VIN.

One could also argue a reissued VIN technically equates the car for legal purposes, but does not bring the car up to equal value in the free market--the side-by-side comparison--as we both agreed.

Does the insurance company care? Who knows. Should you disclose? You decide. Is it fraud if you don't? Technically, no. Would you feel guilty getting the insurance company to agree to a value that probably wouldn't be met in the open market? Doubtful