Soft market optimism and 911 choices

[mtbguy]

Hello everyone- I haven't posted much here in awhile but am now back in the saddle with another 911 adventure. I currently have an 87 Carrera which I love and plan on keeping for a long time.

With the economy being so screwed up now it seems to be a good time to buy another 911, among other things. (Yes I know I'm crazy- the wife tells me that all the time).

I am looking to spend about 15-30k depending on the car, and would like to avoid "molested vehicles" and get a relatively stock car. I don't mind having to rebuild engine or do paintwork on an older one if needed- I can budget for that if its a good price. I just don't want a car with 200,000 miles on it. It would be awesome to buy an 89 speedster but that is out of my budget.

I have been looking at:
1) early 1970's models (S,T,E) up through about 1973 or so, seems hard to find clean one without rust issues.
2) lower mileage SCs and Carreras are still relatively plentiful and seem like a real bargain right now (and have a lot of advantages from a durability/rust/parts availability standpoint)
3) lower mileage decent stock 930's - seem to be some out there with owners strapped for cash asking in the low 30k range - they seem to be slowly getting rarer due to people crashing them, "pimp my riding them", etc. Some of the stock ones have adult owners and have good maintenance histories and documentation

I know these are all VASTLY different choices and its hard to compare apples to oranges.

I believe the market/economy will rebound in the next 2-3 years just like it has before.

Anyone with a crystal ball out there with predictions on cost/relative values of these in five years? I'd like to think that a decent S, and even T/E models could have the most appreciation in five years with a now 25k car being worth 2-4 times that in a few years. I can also see that a 930 might also appreciate like that. This past weekend I looked at a 1973 RS ( only around 1500 of those made I know) at a well known dealer in San Francisco - they were asking 200k for it, it was in good shape, with approx. 70k miles, but more of a driver and not a concours winner in my humble opinion.

Option 2 (the SC or Carrera) would be a different strategy- I have one already so would drive the hell out of one and keep the other more of a garage queen for future sale.

Whatever I get would be more of a fun on the weekend car, not used for driving to work, just using it a few thousand miles a year to keep everything lubed and working.

Thoughts anyone? It would be cool to play around with another 911 for several years and the wife would never give me a hard time about my automotive endeavors if I sold one down the road for 2-3x what I paid.

Currently I'm leaning towards the 930 due to my lack on knowledge on rust repair/welding abilities, diagnostic skills needed to maintain and restore an older one.

Thanks!!!!!!

[racer]

It seems to me the recent drive up of early 911s (pre '73) was fueled by strong demand in the Euro market. I am not sure how their markets are or will recover from this. Also consider that cars of that vintage are, no doubt, the cars that the current 50 y/os remember in their youth. As such, one could argue that as that demographic ages, so too will interest wane slightly. Not many 30 y/os searching out 356s these days for instance.

Over time, the early 911s/930s will appreciate first. Currently, SC and 3.2 Carerras are thought of as "track rats" by some. Still not yet worthy of restoration.

930s are more complex than SCs. If your mechanical skills are lacking, regardless of car type, then prepare yourself for $110/hour shop rates and buy the car YOU want to enjoy and worry less about what others say you should be buying.

[mtbguy]

Originally Posted by racer

Also consider that cars of that vintage are, no doubt, the cars that the current 50 y/os remember in their youth. As such, one could argue that as that demographic ages, so too will interest wane slightly. Not many 30 y/os searching out 356s these days for instance.

I think this is a good point- I am early 40s in age and have no interest in a 356, only some interest in an early 70s model 911. The ones I remember wanting the most growing up were the 80's models and especially the 930.

I have decent mechanical skills- just no desire to take apart an engine to do a rebuild- I can and will do lots of work on my own cars. With the current Carrera I have done everything except the top overhaul which was left to a 25-yr Porsche master mechanic.

While we're on the topic of 930 models? How much more maintenance/TLC do they need versus a stock Carrera of the same vintage?

Thanks!

[racer]

I think finding a 930 that would fit your requirements might be hard. The "good" ones are working their way back up.. Seems $30K is where the nice ones begin. Under 30K means lots of mods, or hard lives.

In general, the 930s, if left stock, were reliable. However, you just about have to just about drop the motor to do a plug change for instance. Plus, they are 20+ years old. Like any 20+ y/o car, items wear out and need refreshening. Turbos wear out. Vacumn leaks occur. CIS inhection too.. (I read issues that some CIS components for the Non-Turbos are getting harder to find.. not sure if this is true for Turbo cars though). Given great complexity to begin with, I would imagine greater complexity to maintain.

I've only driven one 930, and it was slightly modded. What a rush. Loved the boost bong . Only a 4-speed trans up through '88, '89 had the g50 5 speed.

[Sunroof]

Ever consider a trade?
What kind of shape is your 1987 in and what do you think its worth? I am having a tough time deciding on what I want to do at this point in my life with my 1973.5 here in Atlanta (Alpharetta). Its a stunning southern car with no rust which was restored by the prior owner. Based on its present condition it could be a 25K car, but no telling where the market is going to go this year. Its not my daily driver and thats where I get abit uneasy. I tend to pamper it too much! I have been a Porsche owner for over 35 years (4 cars to date) and if I were to sell the "T" I would happily get into a 1987-1989 911 as a daily driver. The G50 is what attracts me the most. My "T" by the way is Sepia Brown and all original. Any interest?

Bob

[mtbguy]

Hi Bob- I really love my G50 cab - its my daily driver except for really rainy days or the hot dog days of summer. At this point I would really rather just buy another one, rather than trade. But for a second one prefer a hardtop with sunroof- definitely don't want two cabs.

As the previous poster indicated I probably should avoid the 930 unless I can find someone really strapped for cash trying to dump their car. That leaves me looking at some of the earlier cars.

A good condition SC would fit the bill if I could swap in a G50 gearbox - not sure how pricey that would be- but I am very attached to the G50 and don't know if I could go back to the 915.

One of the things I just thought about over the weekend is that if I stick with the SC/Carrera model, I have lots of interchangeable parts, wheels, etc. in my garage that I use on either car if something needs work or replacement.

[Sunroof]

I had a 1979SC I adored and feel that the SC series was the greatest 911 built by Porsche. Today however, you have to search well for a great example. Retro-fitting a G50 from a 915 might be a pricey option, but if you already have the G50 and want an SC or early Carrera, why not have the 915. Swepco makes a big difference in the shifting.

The 930s are around and in fact I thought I saw one for sale on Pelican from a local owner recently. If you got the word out to a few shops (Ryland, Jack Lewis, Reggie, Franz Blam, etc), I bet they can find you a nice one at a fair price. If I was loking for a second Porsche the 930 would be kick to own and drive.

As for my 73.5T, I love the heck out of it because its torquey, nosey, classicly 70's and embodies the best days of early Porsche. If I parted with it, I know I would miss it very much.
Anyways, if you ever get a chance come over to the Avenue in East Cobb (just east of Johnson Ferry on Roswell) the first sunday of each month if you want to mingle with fellow Porsche owners and hundreds of sports car enthusiasts.

Good Luck in your searches

Bob

[mtbguy]

Thanks Bob- I stopped by Franz Blams today to ask a question and didn't think to even ask about ones he knew for sale. Franz Blam did an awesome job rebuilding my engine (bad valve guides).

If I could find a good 930 I'll drive it back home from anywhere if it passes a PPI with flying colors.

What time does the Sunday event usually start- I'd love to get in on that.

Thanks!

Rick

[racer]

Um.. Putting a G50 in a 915 equipped car required modifying the rear torsion bar tubes! It can be done, but its not a simple plug and play

Suprisingly, Porsche does a good job of tweaking their cars year to year. They all "look" the same, but there are constant updates. Some things are identical (brake pads) yet rotors and calipers are not (wider on the 3.2 than on the SC for instance).

[mtbguy]

Thanks racer- I thought it would be simple, and wondered why I didn't see everyone doing the swap.

[gestalt1]

i hate to be the one person here to mention that cars (any car) are not appreciating investments. your thinking is right that we are in a recession and you could get a nice car for cheap now and it might get the jump in value that a long hood has over the past 5 years. however, if you want an investment go for a real investment like good stocks that are cheap now. they will appreciate faster and more than an old 911. you can't sell an old 911 like you can a stock. if you want one to use it and enjoy it that is great. i just prefer to keep investments separate from hobbies.

[Sunroof]

Rick...some history on the car gathering.

Last year a car enthusisast got a few friends to meet on the first saturday of the month with their older sprots cars. It caught on as folks drove by and word got out and before you knew it they had to move to the adjacent parking lot to accomodate more vehicles (400 +). To get a good parking space show up by 0900 because the lot fills quickly. It got so busy that the cars were taking up valuable spaces and the merchants complained it impacted business. So, just a few months ago it was moved to the first sunday of the month. This month it was still a great showing, but it was also obvious that early sunday mornings was taking its toll on church goers and late sleepers!!

Arrive and hang out til 1100 when it starts breaking up and you'll thoroughly enjoy the selection of cars that show up. Their is a Panera Bread restaurant at the Avenue that opens early on sunday that gets a good bit of business.

Bob

[mtbguy]

Thanks! I'll look for your car there soon..

[joeybscarface]

I have a very nice matching number 71 T Targa with NO RUST !! that i have to sell. Car is located in southern cali. If interested please email me and I will send pictures.

Joseph@happytrailsinsurance.com
Joey B. 310-493-6996