Please help with value: 73.5T

[73.5TinPA]

Hi to all. In question is a 1973.5 CIS Coupe in mostly factory original Sepia Brown. This vehicle has been in my family since 1978, in my garage since 1989.
It is rust free. The hood and front valance ('S' package) have been repainted (paint chips, no accident), the drivers door has been repainted (banged into garage, and repaired), there are half a dozen minor dings that paintless dent removal could remove. Never an accident, except the driver door scrap.

Interiorwise: uncracked dash, nice leather wheel. all original carpet, headliner with a little brown glue showing on edges, passenger seat perfect, driver seat a one inch vinyl section broke out, but saved. Rear fold down seats perfect with one seat belt added. No sunfoof. Owners Manual packet (books).

915 transmission was resealed and resyncro'd (1st, 2nd 3rd- tech said it all looked like new inside). Oh, under 96K miles, with all records.
2.4L Engine was fully rebuilt around 78,000 miles. When I last changed the oil I notices some tiny metal flakes in oil (Mobil1). Sent it off to a tester in TN and he said no problem. Had Gary Wigglesworth of TransLog check an oil sample and he had said he didn't see a problem, either. So, maybe it is a problem and maybe it isn't.
Lets leave it at presented, but unknown.
Clutch had 50% wear, when trans was out- should have replaced disc, but was out of $ money at that point.
Oil gauge shows low oil pressure-an ancient known problem. Compression is good. The oil return tubes need to be replaced- this is why I stopped driving it. Gas in tank needs to be drained and replaced. Needs a battery(converted to 1 side 12 volt).
Has 15 inch Fuch wheels and XWX's which are hard as nails, but look SO correct. It is lowered a little in the rear.
I've had a couple offers around $10k and am wondering if this is a fair price point. I could let it go as is, or repair the minor things. Problem is that I am uninspired and lacking free time.
I would be glad to hear any thoughts you folks might have. Even though I get Pano, they don't cater to my 911 anymore. Thank you!

[Cal44]

Some pix would help

[geshaghi]

Originally Posted by 73.5TinPA

I would be glad to hear any thoughts you folks might have. Even though I get Pano, they don't cater to my 911 anymore. Thank you!

PM Sent

[karlusmagnus]

Pics, pics, pics will help.
In the absence of that, lets see what you have

Sepia Brown 73.5 with 98k
No rust (this is a big if)
Original Paint (except for touchups where mentioned)
Tranny/Engine refresh 15k-20k miles ago w/paperwork
No sports seats
No tool kit
No H-1's
No fog/driving lights
Pretty good original interior
Fuchs

Non running / Needs clutch / fuel line refresh / oil line refresh / new tires / new battery
Interior will need refresh at some point (headliner getting a bit ratty, seats need upholstery, carpet original but may stand out if headliner/seats refreshed)
Steering wheel is/is not original?
I presume it is running, although you have stopped running it since oil-return issue. How long ago was that?
I presume that you do not have paper trail all the way back to original owner or of everything done to car over the years.
$10k would be a steal based upon what you have stated.
If it was running well, with oil pressure and fuel sorted, it should get you close to $20k. I mean it has original paint, with some touchup on hood/driver door. That is, if no rust.

Only thing is that Euro/Sterling are depressed compared to dollar, so you need someone in US to pay that. I would say that $15k would probably allow someone to put some cash into it and spend a bit on doing some upgrades, so that they would not be too much in the hole.

Still opinions are a dime a dozen. Why not put it up for sale, ask a price, post lots of pics as you seem intent on letting it go, and are not using it? Or wait until spring, fix little things in interim, get it running, and you can be more aggressive in your asking price.

[73.5TinPA]

Thank you to all of you that have responded to my inquiry, many PM's included. I am trying to get pics uploaded. This 911 has sat on concave roller skates for the past 11 years while I raised a kid, worked and ran a business. It is under a canoe, always covered and wedged in sideways across the rear of my garage. (It is packed in, and difficult to photograph).
I fully appreciate it's museum quality sculpture value, and have enjoyed this aspect.

It has the complete toolkit, even the extra fuses(!), the tires-though old- are like sidewall/treadwise uncracked and tread loaded, it has a charged battery(though old), the headliner is anything but ratty- it is fully intact, with some factory brown glue stain seeping through above the rear quarter wing windows.
The steering wheel is original factory type, though only identical to the original.
It has the Euro headlights- (narrow ring chrome surround); it does indeed have all paperwork from all owners from new purchase in S. Cal.
The clutch probably could last another 50K miles with a caring driver.
It has stainless steel exchangers, new Burch factory identical exhaust, airbox with pop-off valve. New oem taillight lenses, good braking system, recent valve adjustment.

There is no rust because the car has always been garaged, and not driven in salt. The last 20 years it has been in an attached garage, substitute: "climate controlled with dehumifier".
I care very much for this car which is why I have held onto it through hardtimes. And why I seek the advice of folks like you, that I know are experienced Porsche enthusiasts of a special caliber.
Anyway, now that that is said, I will crawl under and around the old exotic beauty and be taking pics to make this more fun. Thank you to all - you are helping me by staying in touch!

[karlusmagnus]

Sounds better than initial post. Looking forward to pics. What part of PA are you in? Best of luck with sale.

[73.5TinPA]

Initial uncovering of 11 year storage. Not a barnfind- I know it was there all along. More photos to follow.

[karlusmagnus]

Looks really nice. I'd give you $10k myself, but you are way past $10k from what we see. In better times, you would have been easily north of $30k for mechanically sorted car.

[ossiblue]

I've followed this thread with interest as I have a 73.5 also. From what you've described and the few pictures posted, I hardily agree with karlusmagnus--looks very nice and, IMO, worth spending some time and money to sort out. Whoever offered $10K and saw the car was looking for a steal, glad you didn't bite.

Still, you've got a lot of little things to take care of but taking care of the basics--fuel system refurb, brake system refurb, belt hose and seals refurb, for example--could push the value into the 20's, IMO.

One thing you do have is history, and that carries alot of weight with buyers of original cars. Right now, the economy is playing against you but you've held on to the car for quite a while. I say, don't rush. If you are uninspired, spend some time on this site and rekindle the flame. I can almost guarantee you will regret letting her go if not absolutely necessary.

[73.5TinPA]

The drivers seat is tough 35+ year old German vinyl. A small piece on the side mysteriously caved in when the transaxle was pulled for new syncros. The passenger seat is better.


The headliner is also original. This picture illustrates its fine integrity, as well as the factory glue showing through at the edges. To install a new headliner, the windshield must be removed. I am experimenting with white shoe polish to cover the brown- it may take a lot of coats (but is cheap).


The original dash & instrument cluster. 95,546 actual miles. The dash top is supple and unsplit. Lexol leather conditioner is a good product for these interiors.


And, last for tonight, this is the original engine: 2.4 liter CIS with airbox, fan, and debelted AC compressor showing. The white glove guys would walk by this quickly, I bet.

[BK911]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

From what you've described and the few pictures posted, I hardily agree with karlusmagnus--looks very nice and, IMO, worth spending some time and money to sort out. Whoever offered $10K and saw the car was looking for a steal, glad you didn't bite.

No kidding, looks like a pretty nice car in the pics. Sepia has really been growing on me the last couple of years. Kinda reminds me of a chocolate 911. Mmmm, chocolate! Even with the questionable mechanicals I would pay $15k+ if rust free and all there.

[geshaghi]

I'd be interested in buying the car for more than $10k too....

[73.5TinPA]

Thanks karlusmagnus and ossiblue- your encouragement is fanning the spark, as it were. You are helping me to renew my interest. These early 911's are simply beautiful.

For those who asked, the car is in York area.

I'll take some more detail photos and post them soon.

[karlusmagnus]

It does look very nice indeed. Headliner is original as you stated and not ratty in the least. Has AC as well. Just put on a belt and then get it working. If you can hold onto it, you should. The esthetic value alone, just looking at it, during the cold months of winter in your garage ... ahhh .... I do the same myself ... just looking at its curves and shape. It would seem like you could get this up to snuff rather easily, in order to show it off at its best. If you are still wanting to sell, then you should get a good price.
Also post on early911sregistry.org forum for advice and info. If you go over there and search for "jade" and "bert" you should find a really nice car that bert jayaskera (sic) restored which was a jade color, with original paint, for the most part. Or look for user "fryardds" for his car, "patrick" which was also an original unrestored car. Only unrestored once. Having said that, some of your car has been painted, but still only some.
Also there is a car for sale here recently, an irish green 69T by JLandreth. Look for it here and over on that forum. Gives you an idea of value for a nice car. He was asking $20k, and still leaving money on the table. Times are also not what they were 6 months ago, so if you could wait this out a little, get her sorted, you would be ahead of the game.
Best of Luck
Karl.

[ossiblue]

Your recent pictures just confirm my first impressions--you have a keeper.

Value-wise, the market is tough. There is a nearly identical 72T currently on ebay that has languished for quite a while, offered, I believe, by a consignment dealer. I personally spoke to the owner many months ago and got the history of the car and it is much like your story. I desperately wanted the car but the market was booming at the time and it was beyond my budget. Though the owner offered me a good price at the time (given the market, then), I had to pass. Months later the car appeared on eBay at the "Buy it Now" price and has sat ever since. My point is this: I believe your car to be just as good, and in some areas even better, once it is up and running. Clearly, the price point for the 72 is too high in the current economy (a year ago, it would have sold, I'm sure.) Watch this car as I believe it to be a good indicator of the value of yours, but I would restate my own opinion--KEEP YOUR CAR!

[blau911]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Your recent pictures just confirm my first impressions--you have a keeper.

Value-wise, the market is tough. There is a nearly identical 72T currently on ebay that has languished for quite a while, offered, I believe, by a consignment dealer. I personally spoke to the owner many months ago and got the history of the car and it is much like your story. I desperately wanted the car but the market was booming at the time and it was beyond my budget. Though the owner offered me a good price at the time (given the market, then), I had to pass. Months later the car appeared on eBay at the "Buy it Now" price and has sat ever since. My point is this: I believe your car to be just as good, and in some areas even better, once it is up and running. Clearly, the price point for the 72 is too high in the current economy (a year ago, it would have sold, I'm sure.) Watch this car as I believe it to be a good indicator of the value of yours, but I would restate my own opinion--KEEP YOUR CAR!

Ossie,
That sepia 72T coupe that is sitting there with a dealer at $34,500 BIN has a motor rebuild by none other than John Forbes, which is nothing you want to advertise. There are some people such as Jeff Gamroth and Henry at Supertec that add a certainty of quality to a motor. Forbes ain't one of them.
As for this car, The pic's so far seem to support what 73.5T claims he is selling. A decent, well worn original 73.5T. He also is very up front about the fact that his car has mechanical issues which my just be fuel contamination issues and leaky return tube issues. My experience with these cars is pretty substantial, and there could well be north of $5k spent on getting his car roadworthy again. And that well be why he is leaning toward selling now rather than getting caught on that slippery slope of shelling out money on a car that has been sitting a while and is very expensive to trouble shoot and repair.

[ossiblue]

Thanks, blau911, for the information on the 72--maybe that's why the car is sitting. In retrospect, I'd say the 73 is a better car, if as described (and I have no doubt it is), so my thought of using the 72 as an indicator is somewhat askew. I agree that $5K+ is a reasonable estimate to put the car back on the road, and he can use that figure to adjust his selling price if he decides to go that route. Still, I hope he decides to keep the car.

[Macroni]

Maybe, I didn't read the thread clearly enough but I didn't see that there was an urgency to selling the car. If that is true you are getting great advice. Take your time and get it fully sorted. This in the long run will create the most value. I do think the market has slowed in sales which is pushing down values. So sorting and holding is better than putting the money in the bank. Values will return. The 73.5CIS cars are desirable and will command a premium. Good Luck.

[Rich76_911s]

Wow that is a gourgeous car. Rust free and on the east coast man that has to be a record of some sort. We should call up guiness

It does seem like it would take some work to get it al buttoned up, but what a prize when it is done.

I think you should hang onto it, unless you "have" to sell it. Try to bribe Marconi into giving you a ride in one of his cars. That will certainly light the fuse to get this one fixed.

Thanks for sharing the pictures, and keep us updated on whatever you decide to do with it.

Cheers
Rich

[blau911]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Maybe, I didn't read the thread clearly enough but I didn't see that there was an urgency to selling the car. If that is true you are getting great advice. Take your time and get it fully sorted. This in the long run will create the most value. I do think the market has slowed in sales which is pushing down values. So sorting and holding is better than putting the money in the bank. Values will return. The 73.5CIS cars are desirable and will command a premium. Good Luck.

73.5 CIS cars command a premium? That is the first I have heard of it? Early MFI cars command a premium. I have had MFI, CIS and Weber 2.4T cars, and I prefer the MFI when it's dialed in properly. The CIS cars get great mileage and have good power too, but the CIS system parts are expensive to replace. Webers are also great and easy DIY systems as long as the fuel system is kept clean.