brokers and cars

[trader220]

Originally Posted by car-reras

I couldn't say it any better than this.

+1 Ive been in the camp that says keep it and drive the piss out of it, all along


Blue coupe...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=257647275&dealer_id=63751105&c ar_year=1987&rdm=1236135187857&num_records=25&mode l=911&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&sta rt_year=1987&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&key wordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code= 0&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZip Error=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&first_re cord=26&make=POR&color=&keywords_display=&page_loc ation=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive =&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage =&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=19072&a dvanced=&end_year=1989&pager.offset=25&transmissio n=&doors=&max_price=&cardist=1983&standard=false

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by trader220

Racer in all fairness when you first looked at the car you ended up with you said it was just about out of the question paying a price Tim would sell you the car at and you made some comments about guys like him who run their business around air cooled cars.

Trader, I didn't pay what Tim originally wanted for the car. I'll say this on price: he was more motivated to move the car than I was to increase my offer. My feelings toward him and the others haven't changed, particularly after Richard Sloan swore and declared the car he was trying to broker me was an 88 CE and wasn't. I proved it to him even though I was the uneducated buyer.

For the record, I have no ill will from any of the comments made here but, as I noted, I have a problem with the blanket statements of 'you paid too much'. So long as we enjoy what the money we spent got us, no one should have an issue with that.

Now, let's talk about the limited edition Yugo I just bought for $45k

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by trader220

+1 Ive been in the camp that says keep it and drive the piss out of it, all along


Blue coupe...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=257647275&dealer_id=63751105&c ar_year=1987&rdm=1236135187857&num_records=25&mode l=911&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&sta rt_year=1987&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&key wordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code= 0&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZip Error=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&first_re cord=26&make=POR&color=&keywords_display=&page_loc ation=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive =&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage =&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=19072&a dvanced=&end_year=1989&pager.offset=25&transmissio n=&doors=&max_price=&cardist=1983&standard=false

Where the heck was that when I was buying mine? I so wanted a navy blue one. Has a front spoiler for sure; can't tell whether it has a tail. Close though.

[trader220]

Take the rear off if you dont like it

[salukijac]

+1 Ive been in the camp that says keep it and drive the piss out of it, all along

On your comment I couldn't agree more. When I was looking for mine, I wanted a garage queen, but the more I drove 911s, the more I understood I was going to enjoy it more if I compromised on what I wanted and got something I could drive...as a matter of fact, I drove mine last Friday even though there was a possibility of snow. Bigger than sh.t, it snowed. Oh well, washed it on Saturday and went for a drive. Isn't what owning a 911 is all about?

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by trader220

Take the rear off if you dont like it

I know...that was an option when I was doing my search.

Odd, I still have a search set up on autotrader. I just re-ran it and it didn't pick that car up.

My $.02 on the 'drive the piss out of it' camp is that my next car will be a more 'daily friendly' Carrera that I don't mind getting a bit dirty or taking on the track. That being said, there are days I enjoy driving the snoozemobile Lexus more, such as the day I ran my wife around in downtown Harrisburg. Damn, I hate parallel parking in that car; my arms were numb by the end of the day!

[mike monde]

"Treat yourself to the hunt, you just might realize you've been missing out on one of the best parts of the Porsche experience, and save a bunch of cash, which is kinda nice too."
+1

I have been down both roads on this topic and in my experience, at the end of the day you need to do your DD. I know Holt has a good reputation with some on this board, but my experience with him wasn't pleasant. I trusted his "knowledge" and "experience" and didn't do my DD on the car and I got burned. He was looking to sell me a car, but left out some key information about the car that an "expert" should have seen and passed on to a naive buyer. (Lesson learned) My point isn't too dog a Holt (Tim, no need to send me a PM) or any other broker, just that you need to do your DD on any car, whether it is a private deal or a brokered transaction.
I do agree that the hunt is part of the fun and once you find the "right" one, it will be worth the time. For me, driving up and meeting a fellow enthusiast and learning about the car and its history beats standing in a showroom with a guy who simple just wants to sell you what he has on the lot. It may take a little longer, but the hunt is part of the fun.
Price? comes down to the car and how bad you want it and what the seller is willing to let it go for, simple negotiations. IMO, I would rather pay a little more for what I want then sacrifice my standards for a great deal.

[TheGanzman]

I'm usually amused by the "you paid too much" posts/threads myself - especially specific to vintage/rare/collectible items. It's not like you can run down to WalMart and get any of this stuff any cheaper! Start to get "specific" about what you want, and the available choices go WAY down, so the price usually goes up...

When I bought my 1959 Gibson Les Paul in 2002, I paid "40% over retail" for it; since that time (7 years) there have been exactly TWO (argueably) "nicer" examples that changed hands - both for more money than I paid for mine. In this example, all the naysayers begrudgingly admit that I "made the right move"; at the time, I was called the biggest moron in the vintage guitar community by the same guys!

Granted, there's a lot more "used Porsches" out there than 1959 Les Pauls, but my point is this: If you know EXACTLY what you're looking for, and will accept NOTHING less, then the price of that thing on that day is what you pay for it, and you'll likely be damned glad to have it! If you're willing to lower your standards, then sure, the scope of availabilty and pricepoints widen.

In closing, it seems like it's "O.K." to brag about what a "deal" you got on what something cost you, but categorically NOT O.K. to brag about any "easy money" that you might have made in your line of work. Maybe the guys that "paid too much" were just spending their "windfall money", doncha know...

[car-reras]

Originally Posted by TheGanzman

I'm usually amused by the "you paid too much" posts/threads myself - especially specific to vintage/rare/collectible items. It's not like you can run down to WalMart and get any of this stuff any cheaper! Start to get "specific" about what you want, and the available choices go WAY down, so the price usually goes up...

When I bought my 1959 Gibson Les Paul in 2002, I paid "40% over retail" for it; since that time (7 years) there have been exactly TWO (argueably) "nicer" examples that changed hands - both for more money than I paid for mine. In this example, all the naysayers begrudgingly admit that I "made the right move"; at the time, I was called the biggest moron in the vintage guitar community by the same guys!

Granted, there's a lot more "used Porsches" out there than 1959 Les Pauls, but my point is this: If you know EXACTLY what you're looking for, and will accept NOTHING less, then the price of that thing on that day is what you pay for it, and you'll likely be damned glad to have it! If you're willing to lower your standards, then sure, the scope of availabilty and pricepoints widen.

In closing, it seems like it's "O.K." to brag about what a "deal" you got on what something cost you, but categorically NOT O.K. to brag about any "easy money" that you might have made in your line of work. Maybe the guys that "paid too much" were just spending their "windfall money", doncha know...

+1, I totally agree, but the thread topic here is 'brokers', ya know....;-)

[GregB7S4]

Originally Posted by RacerX1166

For those that are so quick to cry 'you overpaid', I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and cough up a lower mileage, no issue, blue G50 coupe with no spoilers at 20% lower than what I paid. If, and only if, you are able to do so, feel free to comment at will about how folks overpaid for their car. Until then, well, you know.

There was one on Autotrader a couple of months ago. 69k miles with spoilers for $23500. I thought the asking price was a bit high in today's market.

> VEHICLE INFORMATION
> Make: Porsche
> Model: 911
> Year: 1988
> Price: 23500
> Mileage: 69000
> Body Style: Coupe
> Color: Blue
> Cylinders: 6 Cylinder Gasoline
> Transmission: Manual
> Doors: Two Door
> Stereo: Unavailable
> VIN: WP0AB0916JS121115
> Description: This is a very clean example of the last year
> of the first generation of the 911, with no modifications
> of any kind. It is equipped with the bullet-proof 3.2 liter
> engine, the smooth-shifting G50 transmission, attractive
> front air dam/rear spoiler and original 16 inch Fuch wheels
> (7x8). The car is a pretty deep (dark) blue and the leather
> seats are also deep blue. It was always garaged and full
> maintenance records are available from August 2004 to
> present (58,000 to 69,000 miles), the period during which I
> have owned it. Since August 2004, maintenance has been
> performed by RennWerke of Elmsford, NY; the RennWerke
> owner/manager is available for discussion. For prior
> years, the dealer stamps are in the manual. The Dunlop
> tires have one-third of the tread remaining and the brakes
> and clutch were replaced by RennWerke in the last 3,000
> miles. The car has always been garaged, never been a daily
> driver and has been used for weekend highway driving, except
> for six PCA Driver's Ed events at Lime Rock and Watkins
> Glen. The only issues worth noting are a few of the usual
> minor hood chips, a small abrasion/rubbed patch on the
> bolster of the driver's seat and a Freon recharge.

[gsjohnson]

I flew to 2 different cities, rented a car and hotel in each city. And this was after I had exhausted my search locally of every car that fit my criteria. I problably spent every bit of $300 in gas locally and another $400 at each city I flew to. Does this mean that I over paid for my car when including these search costs? The hunt was very fun and exciting to me. Money well spent whether you include these costs in the purchase price or not. Why pay a broker when I can have this much fun on a hunt? And more than likely I got the car I wanted as I educated myself along the way...

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by GregB7S4

There was one on Autotrader a couple of months ago. 69k miles with spoilers for $23500. I thought the asking price was a bit high in today's market.

I really need to review my search criteria on Autotrader since that's the second car that hasn't shown up in my results.

[GregB7S4]

Autotrader is supposed to email me whenever a car matching my criteria is listed. I have yet to receive an email.