Case Study - Used 911 for sale

[Mark021]

Note: Typing is not my strong suit so please forgive any and all spelling errors, I really do know how to spell I'm, just too ADD to take the time to do so correctly, and isn't that what secretaries are for anyway?

I've already requested input from Macroni and Techweenie and they are being very conservative and undoubtedly on the money here, but at this point I guess it might be entertaining as well as educational to throw it out and pull from the knowledge pool.

Here's what I'm being told.

Scenario:

1986 Garnet red Coupe with lower miles (70K). Offered by individual who appears to be a 64 year old car dealer who at one time had/has his own specialty shop (Corey's Automart) now working as a sales rep for a Porsche dealership in Chicago suburbs (Rockford, Ill) and acquired car from a professional in the area (doctor/lawyer) and kept the car as a personal vehicle but hasnt' driven much in the several years he has owned. Owner states that personal issues force the sale and cash flow is needed and willing to price very competatively to move it. Owner/dealer said car was acquired and PO had done ~20K of work to the car but never got the reciepts from the PO. I noticed that the a/c compressor was missing in the pictures and asked and his response was that this was how it was when he acquired it, eluding to the fact that people sumetimes just yank the things as they dont' work very well and the PO had apparently purchased a full service "package" from a shop at about 60K and maybe that was done at that time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1986-Porsche-911_W0QQitemZ120372417728QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Trucks QQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=i tem120372417728&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65 %3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

there were 2 ads in ebay, he rolled over the first with a reserve of $13.5K that didnt' get any hits, he answered some questions there but didn't in the second (link) ad.

I pulled an autocheck and it had little no no info, consistent registrations every year at the same time but no milage or any service reports, apparently the car is over 10 years old so exempt from milage reporting, but every other 85 and 86 I pulled from ebay showed at least a few milage reports, even one with Illinois title... so WTF.

Is this just toooooooo many coincidences?

Report Run Date: 2009-02-09 20:30:24.622 EST
Vehicle: 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera (WP0AB0916GS121172)
Event date Location Odometer reading Data Source Details
07/02/1996 CHICAGO, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
07/18/1997 CHICAGO, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/22/1998 CHICAGO, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/21/1999 CHICAGO, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
08/01/2001 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
09/17/2001 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:T1260010029)
EXCLUDED/EXEMPT
05/14/2002 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/15/2003 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
06/23/2004 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
06/21/2005 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
06/20/2006 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
12/13/2007 ROCKFORD, IL Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:X7347052013)
EXCLUDED/EXEMPT (Lien Reported)

[bwall]

My only thought is man, you'd better LOVE that color, b/c you'll never be able to sell it. If the price is right that would explain it for me. . .. . I know, I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but there is a reason that color combo isn't offered in new cars today. And it may be twenty years before its 'retro cool'.

[mrbeverlyhills]

I think the color is the least of your problems, I am kind of tired of the silver/white/red/black choices all the time, I know this color and it is nice in person, better with a black interior.

This has RUN FAST written all over it. I doubt the mileage claim, the car is missing more than the A/C from what I can see and this from pretty poor photos and not too many of those.

There are no excuses cars and there are cars like this with a bunch of excuses. You make the call.

[Mark021]

Love is blind...

I kinda liked the burgundy... granted interior and exterior is a bit much. Throw sheepskins on it and at least it woudl have a little contrast.

I'm willing to forgive a lot in terms of things like color for that great deal.... I know... this story gets more and more fragile the more I think about it.

Amazing coincidence that the Autocheck report doesn't have ANY mileage documentation on it ANYWHERE, in 10 years only DMW registrations and the previous owner who spent $20K on extensive maintenance and upgrades just happened to leave town with all the records that would probably have some kind of record of mileage on them, wouldn't they?

I took a walk and started thinking about all the "ommissions" in the scenario. I'm not saying that the story isn't valid, but there are just so many cross reference things missing in this story and I really don't think I want to pull the resources to see if I can find better documentation through county records or something.

I still remember the story in high school about the guy whose son dies in his new corvette and the poor dad who just wanted to get rid of the thing as it reminds him of his son, and if you didn' t mind the slight smell of decaying flesh was willing to let it go for nothing.

Oh well.... glad to know I'm not alone... there's another me born every minute.

thanks for the reality check guys... think I'll hold on for that "no stories" G50 that the guy ran over his dog with and just has to get it out of his sight and will pay me to take

[Mark021]

when I was 15 my dad hit male menopause and came home with mom's new car, a "burgundy" pontiac grand prix with a black vinal top and a really, really burgundy interior. He had no idea what he had brought home, we had never had anything but station wagons (the kind of guy who mowed the yard in wingtips and black socks and bermuda shorts, looked like Vince Lombardi.).

The thing had a 455 in it... all he knew was that it was "peppy".

My brother was about 17 at the time and I had a learners permit.... very memorable car and times had by all... the fact that we are still alive is a miracle.

[linklaw]

I emailed the seller about his claim that the "head bolts" had been replaced and he clarified that he meant head studs. He reiterated that he had no records of the supposed repair work. If I were interested in the car, I would ask him the name of the prior owner and try to find the guy in Seattle, where the seller says he moved to. It wouldn't take long to track down the prior owner and call him about the car. Who knows, maybe he really had the work done and may even have the records. I have gotten parts and maintenance/repair records from previous owners of cars, even though they might have been two or three back in the chain of ownership. A little detective work can sometimes pay off. Others may think this is a complete waste of time.

[Macroni]

PPI......PPI.....PPI or walk away.

The car obviously had work done to it. It was owned [and probably loved] at one point by an enthusiast. $13,000 for a car with questionable characteristics is no bargain in today's market.

There are Chicago Pelicans. I suggest you reach out on the tech board and get a pelican drive by.

[RacerX1166]

I could live with the color. In fact, I was considering a burgundy car a dealer had in AL (just checked and he finally moved it) when I bought mine.

Most states allow a car to be exempt from mileage readings once it hits a certain age. Most dealers who specialize in collector vehicles choose not to exercise the exemption since it usually devalues the genuine low mileage article they have in their inventory.

With regard to this car, if you want it, PPI as has been said. Personally, I agree with other's comments that there are better deals to be had out there at the moment.

[techweenie]

Mark, have you checked out this one?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/1028312850.html

[techweenie]

Or this one?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/1023752123.html

[techweenie]

Or this one:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/1020133025.html

[Mark021]

God this is exasperating.... champagne tastes... gatorade budget.

I need a reality check. Remember the Joplin song: "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz". I think I'm out of touch. If only it were a status thing I think I could laugh at myself for being such a fool, but most people I know would probably just say; "20 years old, you could get a brand new toyota for that much!" Then I get a chance to drive one and about 5 minutes into the drive I start to hit the gears and find the tempo of the car and I start to bond with it and that little grin gets stuck in the corner of my mouth.

I really am wierd.

Techweenie... I did start to look at the 915 cars as well but was a bit afraid of the "eruo" cars from what I have heard on this site so I tended to pass them by. I really like the looks of the 84 in Venice, but the "euro" designation along with the 130K was just enough to make me feel like I could be getting into more than I could handle.

Any advice would be appreciated. It just seems that the overwhelming appreciation is that these cars can do 300K, but of the hundreds if not thousands of cars that I've seen listed over the last year or two I can probably count the cars with 200K on them on two hands... so there's an apparent disconnect between the "they last forever" belief and what I'm seeing in teh market. I don't pretend to have a personal appreciation one way or another but it makes me think that a car with 130K on it typically is well past midpointin it's life unless you are willing to put tens of thousands in it, and then what do you have really? I'm just not familiar with the "take the odometer and throw it out the window" world, I appreciate that it probably exists but I'm from the simple perspective that mileage tends to have a strong interpretive meaning about overall health of cars in the mainstream, and I'm too middle-everything to be able to play outside of the mainstream well.



Regards,

Mark

[trader220]

the color is not that big an issue, the stories are the issue. The PPI will tell the tale of the tape. It does appear to have 16 inch 7 and 8's if they're real Fuch's they're worth a few bucks. I would think that a car fax would have some mileage indications on it, but to be honest at 13k its a nice deal so long as the PPI is pretty clean.

[salukijac]

Carfax says in 1999 it had 101,000 miles. That was the last odometer reading.

[Mark021]

thank you for the follow Salukijac,

I don't know... maybe I have a warped value system or listen to Micheal Josephson too much on talk radio. I can be an ass and opinionated to a fault (obviously don't listen to Josephson enough), but I don't think I could bring myself to just outright lie about things like this.

But I kind of figured as much... desperate times.

On to the next...

What about the earlier cars (3.0 and 915/3.2's).... that's probably another thread but for my purpose, one with lower (100K-ish or less) miles and stellar maintenance and records.

I'm not really looking for a prize here but a very solid workhorse to enjoy zipping around OC and LA and down to San Diego occasionally as well as plod to work and back a coupel fo days a week.

Something that I dont' have to anticipate spending $10K on over the next 3 to 4 years (under 10K a year) and can be reasonably comfortable with the fact that it will be as reliable as just about any other car on the road, and may actually have a residual value at 180K regardless of whether I decide to keep it around or not.

These 82/83 and 84/85 cars are starting to pop up a lot and some of them appear to be the lower mileage (80K to 100K+) well-maintained (recent $7k to $10K)serviced vehicles from what appear to be relatively stable owners.

Heck, they seem to be being offered in the $14K to $16K price range much more often than the 87 to 89 cars in similar state are showing up in the $20K range.

[discovery2]

I hope that I never get stuck behind you in the grocery store check out.

[TheGanzman]

Originally Posted by discovery2

I hope that I never get stuck behind you in the grocery store check out.

No *****e! Here's the bottom line - what you're looking for is a $28K+ car RIGHT NOW. You've got three choices:

1). Take the "reality pill", swallow HARD with lots of water, and step up for the Big Boy G50 car that you really WANT now. I'll sell you my LOCAL garage-queen 42.5K mile '88 Diamond Blue Carrera Coupe, dry as a popcorn fart underneath, full history back to day one, ICE COLD A/C, for $32K cash - no purple cats w/crooked tails in trade, etc. Alternately, step up for Racer X's fine Baltic Blue specimen...

2). Cross your fingers that the economy will CONTINUE to tank so much that a Big Boy G50 car will pop up for sale that you will be LUCKY ENOUGH to be the 1st guy at the door to buy at a distress price; hey, it COULD happen while you're still able to drive at night...

3). Lower your standards - when all you're willing to "afford" is Pabst Blue Ribbon, it don't taste too bad after the third can...

[Fishman7]

I agree!

Originally Posted by TheGanzman

No *****e! Here's the bottom line - what you're looking for is a $28K+ car RIGHT NOW. You've got three choices:

1). Take the "reality pill", swallow HARD with lots of water, and step up for the Big Boy G50 car that you really WANT now. I'll sell you my LOCAL garage-queen 42.5K mile '88 Diamond Blue Carrera Coupe, dry as a popcorn fart underneath, full history back to day one, ICE COLD A/C, for $32K cash - no purple cats w/crooked tails in trade, etc. Alternately, step up for Racer X's fine Baltic Blue specimen...

2). Cross your fingers that the economy will CONTINUE to tank so much that a Big Boy G50 car will pop up for sale that you will be LUCKY ENOUGH to be the 1st guy at the door to buy at a distress price; hey, it COULD happen while you're still able to drive at night...

3). Lower your standards - when all you're willing to "afford" is Pabst Blue Ribbon, it don't taste too bad after the third can...

[linklaw]

Or save $5,000 and buy this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BLACK-88-911-COUPE-WITH-A-TAIL-A-BEAUTIFUL-CAR_W0QQitemZ200308827388QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10156Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Mark021]

I should own Starbucks by now.

My wife procured my balls so option one is off the table until I can get them back, but by then they'll probably be all shriveled up and not good for much. I really don't wish the great depression on anyone, including you guys so I probably need to LOWER MY STANDARDS!

what's the saying, ther's no such thing as a bad porshe, just good and better... that was porsches they were talking about wasn't it?

Tough crowd....