market value '99-'00 911

[tadink]

I have noticed that the market for the '99 and '00 911 has gone into the tank - like below $20k and even one '99 911 tiptronic for under $16k advertised in the Bay Area - - what's the deal? Earlier and later model years are well above these two model years in price. One dealer said something about a head gasket issue?? Anyone shed any light on this? Should these model years be avoided? Is this an engine rebuild just waiting to happen like the early Boxsters? thx in advance....td

[RS#007]

Just do a search. Cool car for the money though.

[Elombard]

IF you google Jake Raby he has the story and fix on his site. Also, search on the 996 board on Rennlist. Lost of info and opinions. I would buy one in a heart beat if I was in the market prepared to swap in a used motor or rebuild with the Raby parts.

[tadink]

thanks for taking the time to post and point me in the right direction, but gotta say it, ultimately the 'do the search' answer kind of bothers me - - unlike many, I would not ask the question if I could find the answer in the archives....but with a somewhat limited search tool, the 'do the search' suggestion is just not all that helpful.

that being said, I did turn up some stuff over on rennlist that was pretty helpful.

near as I can tell, there are two issues: quantity and reputation.

quantity - there were LOTS of these made, some feel they are less desirable, compared to earlier or later model years, and so the price is low. maybe I buy that, maybe not.

reputation - there appears to be a somewhat clouded reputation due to catastrophic engine failure, never a good thing, that is either deserved or not depending upon all the opinions posted. Jack Raby's 'cure' might help - - but I'll do more research on that before opining one way or the other.

I can't find a smoking gun that dissuades me from looking further into the matter, and I'll post my findings so the next poor sod who 'does the search' might turn up something.

thx

td

[gsjohnson]

I just sold my 1999 996 and it had no issues. When someone speaks of the head gasket or RMS issue, it really effected a small percentage of these cars. But then it cuts thru the industry as a common problem, where in real percentages, it's actually a small amount.

The RMS issue is obvoius and can be spotted as oil leaking onto the ground. The head gasket issue will throw multiple mil codes of combustion chamber mixture issues. Make sure someone pulls any stored codes of your perspective purchase during the PPI.

As far as the prices go, Under 20k buys you a high mileage example or it will have had previous accident damage. A nice low mileage example will be over 20K for sure. I sold my 99 996 with original paint and 49,000 miles for 24K.

Hope this helps.

[racer]

RMS was the first issue - Rear Main Seal. Caused a leak of oil. Sometimes small drops, other times complete failures that cause huge leaks. Annoying more than anything, but if left unchecked, could cause serious damage.

IMS is the real issue.. InterMediate Shaft. When it fails it eats the motor. Done. Game over.

Much like the maligned slipped sleeved Boxster engines (also M96 based - Porsches internal code) these motors were made to a price. This is in direct contrast to the 993 and older aircooled motors that, while certain years had issues, were considerably more robust in their design.

993 (the previous model) were the last of the aircooled models and will be saught after because of it and that is reflected in their price.

Later models (2002+, or 997s) are more desireable becase of improvements (hp, displacement, etc) than made them more reliable.

IMHO, its not until the 997.2 that I think the motor is truly better. To me anything from 1999-2008 should be considered suspicious and either be "self insured" or warrantied.

[geshaghi]

I have a 1999 996 coupe that I purchased from the original owner in 2001. I have put 60,000 miles on the car (it now has over 80,000 miles). My car was a European delivery US car that the PO picked up in April 1998, so it is one of the early ones. Other than routine maintenance and some leaks in the cooling system plumbing (tanks, hoses and water pump), the car has been a reliable pleasure to own and drive. I have heard the stories of RMS leaks and catastrophic failures, but I have never actually met anyone that this has happened to. I think the 996 represents a tremendous value right now, but I also think that they will continue to decline in value somewhat in the next couple of years, in part because they are so abundant as well as the fact that they do not have the same attributes of the air cooled 911's that enable a broad enthusiast base.

[RS#007]

I didnt mean you had to limit your search to just pelican. you could "Google it". You would find what the main problem with that vehicle is. I am not normally the person who would answer in that fashion, but I know for a fact you can find out in about 0.26 seconds. But anyway no hard feelings and good luck with your search.

[Matt Monson]

The other thing to watch for with the 996's is 1st and 2nd gear pop out issues. They used to be a bigger problem when Porsche didn't offer replacement idlers gears for them and there were only a handful of shops in the country that could fix them. Now knowledge of how to fix them is getting more widespread and common. But if I was shopping for one, I would be looking for one that already had it's transmission rebuilt and the issue addressed.

Here in Colorado we're seeing them in the mid to low $20's for nice cars. I consider that more than fair. We may be picking up a C4S sometime next year and if I could find one right around $25k I would be satisfied. If they keep slipping before then I wouldn't complain either.

[aigel]

Not surprised about the further decline. It is obvious why the 993 holds in better than the early 996. The later 996 may just be more $ because it is newer.

I have predicted for years now that the 996 will be at the 928 level down the road. I would stay away even from a $20k 996 as I would be worried it can be a $10k 996 not too long down the road. The boxster (the new 914) already has reached $8k territory here in L.A. - nuts!

George

[gsjohnson]

Originally Posted by aigel

Not surprised about the further decline. It is obvious why the 993 holds in better than the early 996. The later 996 may just be more $ because it is newer.

I have predicted for years now that the 996 will be at the 928 level down the road. I would stay away even from a $20k 996 as I would be worried it can be a $10k 996 not too long down the road. The boxster (the new 914) already has reached $8k territory here in L.A. - nuts!

George

I'll take that bet. The average 996 will never reach 10K. Remember it is Porsche's only 911 with its' legendary body style during that era. A 928? Come-on. 20K+ buys you a lot of car in the 996 series. Then you're onto Boxsters? A fortune teller you are not.

[aigel]

Legendary body style? Slab sided with a boxster front and one generation only Mitsubishi Eclipse headlights? The real issue is that the car is stuck between the 993 and the 997. Nobody wants to cover the 996 "era" if they can avoid it. The average 996 around here already changes hands at $20k.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/1467594849.html

[aigel]

One more comment. At 20k for relatively low mileage 996 cars they are already cheaper than a comparable 993, 964 and G50 Carrera.

George

[Tim in N FL]

Originally Posted by aigel

Legendary body style? Slab sided with a boxster front and one generation only Mitsubishi Eclipse headlights? The real issue is that the car is stuck between the 993 and the 997. Nobody wants to cover the 996 "era" if they can avoid it. The average 996 around here already changes hands at $20k.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/1467594849.html

Wow...these are getting cheap. The one listed above had already sold. Try this one instead now (active as of today's date):

>> 1999 Porsche 911, blk, 6spd xlnt condtion, low miles, $21000 obo

or maybe

classifieds - craigslist

Nevertheless, I'm keeping my '87 Coupe for a while yet...

Cheers,
Tim

[aigel]

I am tempted at times, but then I read horror stories with engines blowing up (intermediate shaft issue) and I get scared. The air cooled cars can blow up too, but generally they go out slowly and I know how to fix those. I think this is a major factor as well - many DIY see themselves capable even of the 993 but all I read on the 996 are engine exchanges, no home rebuilds.

George

[gsjohnson]

So Confusius, since the bet is on, when is your prediction going to become reality? Inquiring minds want to know...
Why are you here? It sounds like you should be over at the Mitsu Board.

[aigel]

8 years tops. Mark your calendar Christmas 2017 you can buy yourself the average 996 for 10k. The 993 and G50 Carreras will be at 20k in similar shape. I bet you a six pack.

And I am here to add to the 996 value discussion - looking into the future isn't easy and it will depend on the analyst.

George

[jkarolyi]

Agree with George...

[gsjohnson]

LOL...2017? I'll have one foot in the grave by then. It'll be a collector car at that stage...at almost 20 years old. Now I know you've been smokin' that funny stuff. Let's just have that sixer now before the voice of doom overwhelms me.

Originally Posted by aigel

8 years tops. Mark your calendar Christmas 2017 you can buy yourself the average 996 for 10k. The 993 and G50 Carreras will be at 20k in similar shape. I bet you a six pack.

And I am here to add to the 996 value discussion - looking into the future isn't easy and it will depend on the analyst.

George

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by gsjohnson

I'll take that bet. The average 996 will never reach 10K. Remember it is Porsche's only 911 with its' legendary body style during that era.

A body style that most people find fugly.