Thinking about sellling or trading my car. Value?
 

Guys
I bought a 1971 911T non sunroof coupe in the summer of 2007 as a project. It was previously restored in the early 90s (I have the docs) but had gone through several owners since and not driven much.

It's sepia brown, repainted 20 yrs ago. Paint, aside from a few runs, scratches etc, is in good shape. I have been working on this car on and off -mostly off since May of 2011 - but between work, home renovations, starting an MBA program this coming summer and other events...just don't see myself having a lot of time moving forward to dedicate to this car.

In the winter of 2010-2011, I worked with an experienced Porsche body work hobbyist (he's done many 356s and 901s) to replace the rockers, jack plates and tubes, as well as correct a couple of other spots. The interior is out of the car right now so I can verify the lack of floor and seat pan rust. (a tiny amount of superficial stuff on the seat bottom area but not the parcel shelf etc. Nothing an hour with a wire brush and POR 15 won't decisively deal with). Many of the panels including the fenders and floors were replaced at the time of the 1991ish restoration.

Mechanically, the car runs and drives good. It does have some oil leaks and the transmission has leak that will need to be dealt with. Its toward the front of the car. It has an allegedly rebuilt 2.2 (not the original engine) with Zeniths. I have a set of USA Weber 40s I rebuilt a couple of years ago but have sat in a box ever since. I also have a freshly rebuilt 008 Bosch dizzy (Ed @ Vintage Werks did it, comes with a curve chart etc). And a nice 006 E distributor as well. Not sure what is on the current engine. The original engine is on a furniture dolly. I removed it due to low compression and oil leaks.

The car has a nice Bischoff muffler, new gaskets, silicon bronze bolts, new muffler hanger. The heat exchangers are in nice shape. The heater flapper valves are frozen. Not sure if its the cables or flappers themselves.

I replaced the motor mounts.

Neither engine has Carrera tensioners. The current engine does have the safety collars. I have a complete set of Carrera tensioners and oil lines waiting to go on.

I replaced all the throttle linkage bushings and adjusted. Have not replaced the pedal cluster bushings but I have a new bronze set waiting for install.

The car has new Bilsteins all around. New OEM 930 tie rods. Elephant rubber A arm bushings, camber plate bushings installed. I have Elephant RTABs and spring plate bushings as well as a set of 911SC spring plates not installed.

I rebuilt the front calipers and have the rebuild kits for the rear but have not done them yet. Also have new rotors for the rear not installed. Up front I replaced the hard and flex lines (braided SS ones), dust shields, Zimmerman rotors and pagid or similar pads. Wheel bearings were just checked and lubed. I had the boge strut housings and the underbelly panel powdercoated while I was at it.

The car has very nice flat 15x6 real fuchs and 205/60 BFG G sports with ~1500 miles on them.

I installed real Bosch euro H4s. The headlight switch should be replaced as it shorted. The car has a rennline smuggler's box battery kit installed with an Odyssey 925 battery.

It also has a nice Appbiz black lightweight carpet kit waiting for install. I have Recaro SE cloth seats with wedge engineering seat bases. PEP 3 point seatbelts are installed. I do have the map and door pockets. Missing a few hinge pieces for the hinged pockets. Nice prototipo 350mm wheel. I have the original stock wheel in nice shape too.

I also have the original tan front stock seats. The seat bottom cushions are very tired. The upholstery itself is not terrible.

I'm sure I am forgetting a ton more. I keep very, very detailed receipts and have all of the early 90s restoration receipts as well, all in a folder. I am into this car for over 20k at this point. Here's what it looked like last time it saw daylight, May 2011. This is when I drove it home from doing the body work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1331302405.jpg

I'm trying to figure out whether I should keep going slowly as time allows and have a very nice car in a few yrs with a massive amount of my money, time, sweat, and tears in it . OR should I sell and find a driver grade 3.0/3.2 and enjoy the thrill of driving a 911 but be able to better focus on these other non-hobby things in my life.

What is the going rate for a car like mine? I know they are not going backwards in value and solid LWB non sunroof cars are not easy to find. I also realize it is a work in progress.

Keep it. Unless you need the money, hold onto it. It sounds like a really solid car with all of the hard stuff taken care of.

This sounds like good advice to me. Again, 'unless you need the money'. . .. . ..

Keep It!
 

I have gone from a 71S Targa to a 71S Race Car to a 85 Carrera to a 91 Carrera 2 and back finally to a 72T Coupe restoration project (sepia brown like yours) in a five year time horizon. I will tell you from my experience there is nothing more rewarding then working on your own car and knowing that you won't see 10 others just like it.

While the later Carrera's have more power and modern (but still dated) conveniences, they never "spoke" to me and I was always missing the feeling of an early car. So I say keep your 71 as you have a lot of time invested and a majority of the hard parts are already done. It looks like an excellent car that will bring years of enjoyment and the possibility of good appreciation.

BUT if you want to sell it I would not take any less than $30-$35K for the car. That is based on following the market closely for the last 9 months in which the long hoods have just skyrocketed (if you can find a nice one).

Good luck and happy motoring!

Thanks for your responses. I am still figuring out what to do. I am leaning slightly towards selling and buying a driver 3.0/3.2...and using the rest of the $ towards the house. We'll see.

Thanks again.

Dan,
About price, the latest Excellence (may 2012) which features Bruce Anderson's latest values on early 911's lists the 1971 911T coupe with a low of 22k and high of 33.4K. Some use his prices as a guide others ridicule the heck out of his estimates in this forum. I have been saving the May issues that feature the early car value assessments for years and one thing I agree on; the longhood prices are climbing and coming back! We are over the hump and Anderson claims that, the early 911's will exceed the 356's as collectibles. I would agree with his assessment that they are the next 356s.

You have too much sweat and time into it so it makes sense to hang onto the car and move along unless you can get ABSOLUTE top dollar right now. Tough choice, but you really know the answer............................................ ........................keep it.

Bob
1973.5T in Sepia of course

Sigh.
Pulled her out of the garage for the first time in 2 years last month. This is after a quick wash (no wax etc) to shake the dust off.

http://imageshack.us/a/img843/9889/tuqb.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img824/1848/omwe.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/9044/qffi.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img266/8857/qv43.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img27/839/y0dz.jpg

I either need to get back to this car or sell and get into a driver SC/3.2.
Have values changed appreciably in the last 18 months?

Very interesting. The pictures show a much nicer car than you describe. EBay buyer beware of this phenomena.

With project cars nearing $20k I wouldn't sell for $30k. I would start asking around high 30's and see what happens.

Love the color.

Ive seen these T's in the 100K as of late.. if everything checks out ..

Keep it
 

I have followed your rebuild posts and have really admired the work you've done on the car and was wondering what you have been up to as I hadn't come across a post from you in awhile. If it is strictly a matter of time - and not a financial situation you are dealing with - keep it.

Every person who has sold a car like yours has ultimately lived to regret the decision.

100k? I'd better get cracking on getting my '70 restored then :)

"I subscribe to the law of contrary public opinion… If everyone thinks one thing, then I say, bet the other way..."


Sell it. Sell it now get as much as you can because the market is so hot, take the extra dough for the house and buy a 3.2. Make sure you do get another 911 with your dough but I would sell it now and get a nice clean 3.2 that you can drive, have the experience, won't have to worry about rust and all the small things and save lots and lots of your time, sweat and energy. Most of all, time...you won't regret it if you get a clean 3.2. Let it go.

PS. Life is short, and when you can enjoy a hobby without getting all 'hobby' about the hobby, it clears your mind. I have struggled with this, and have let things go in exchange for time and dough.

Hagerty (8/2013) has a 71 911t valued as:

cond 1 - $66.6k
cond 2 - $46.1k
cond 3 - $37.1k
cond 4 - $22.7k

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vc=1282611

Dan,
The car looks generally nicer in the photos than what you describe. The paint has a nice gloss to it, and the wheels and muffler tip really sparkle..
The only big issue holding the car back from being a real collector piece is the non original motor in the car now and the fact that the original motor needs a rebuild. You mention your concern over the tranny leaking as well, which may mean the motor and tranny could need to be pulled to deal with the leak so you could kill two birds with one stone.

One suggestion: don't install the App Biz carpet kit. Sure, it's okay but for the $200 they cost, the material quality is poor compared to the good original german stuff. How are the dash and door pockets? A nice clean original interior would push the price up as well...

Thank you all for the feedback.

WRT the carpet:
The original (or possibly replaced during the 1991 restoration) carpet had to come up when we did the rockers. I was able to remove some but not all without damaging it, so I saw this as an opportunity to re-do the interior to match the black cloth Recaro SE seats. Hence the appbiz carpet kit sitting in a box in a spare bedroom.

I had started working on the interior and then shifted focus to the house. I instead reroofed/sided/new kitchen etc (still a long, long way to go on the house front) and the car has been sitting more or less since.

The dash is decent but does have one crack around the speaker area.
No radio. P/O installed some garbage 90s head unit that I removed.

The door & map pocket pieces are mostly accounted for. The smaller map pockets are in nice shape. One of the door pockets is decent, the other one is missing the trim and could use some love. I was going to make composite (fiberglass) recreations using the originals as a mold, and re-cover in black vinyl. The hinge pieces are missing.

It is a pretty car and a longhood is something I won't be in a position to have again for quite some time should I sell. I don't really care about speed anymore, but I do like the smooth, more user friendly nature of the later cars.

I swore my next bonus would go straight to the car and let me do what I really want - first get a COA to confirm the other engine is # matching, then have Supertec rebuild it to stock+, add new SSIs etc. While I had it out I would deal with the trans leak, replace the heater flapper valves and cables, install my Elephant Racing RTABs and my SC adj spring plates etc.

The interior could be done correctly after that.
The things right now keeping me from executing that plan:

1. We (the co I work for) have had a tough year growth wise. Bonus questionable.
2. So much house 'stuff' to do.
3. Single car garage, tough to get cracking over the winter.
4. Opportunity cost of significant addt'l funds thrown at the car right now vs investing/other house projects/other.

I guess the next thing to do is itemize everything that needs to be done and come up with accurate time/cost figures. This will help me make a smarter decision.

To be continued!

with values 50-100K right now
it is totally worth making every effort and everything correct.
the parts are cheap compared to the whole now a days
Its a nice car no-doubt .. maybe next summer get lucky 100K+

Dan,
Funny how if you posted this thread 2-3 years ago, everyone would have been ridiculing the color of your car as "floater brown". Now no one here as anything negative to say about sepia being an unpopular and ugly color. Colors and styles change quickly...

High $20s, easily, if you can confirm the second engine is matching. You should ask $32-33 in any case, just because we know there are a few Sepia Stalwarts out there...

Bill finally spoke as I was waiting, but he didn't say whether to keep or sell.:D

bump.

1 year later and I've done virtually nothing. I thought I had a deal in place for a nice 964 C4 plus cash trade but it went poof.

Is it too late in the year / season to put this up for sale? Have real world selling prices changed significantly since last fall?

I love these cars but have more pressing things requiring my time and energy. That's why I was so psyched about the sorted 964.

I promise not to bump this one again in another year, no matter what happens.

I think you will do better now than then. I also don't think time of year will matter much. There are still a ton of folks looking for the right car right now. Good luck.

Probably made 1,000 dollars a month on that car this year.

Tech is about right for a quick sale. I believe if you did mimimal sorting you could get a good deal more. Bring it to Auto Associates and have them review it.

I think the last 10 months have been good to your car. High $20s now, IMO. Not sure the car has appreciated $1000/mo., but certainly more than $500...

What does wife , I assume there's one, say about the hunk of metal in her single car garage ?

Girlfriend no care, actually does not want me to sell. In a perfect world, she would rather see a 2002tii in the garage.

Ah, that makes the decision easier then ...

I would start driving the '71 911 now or find one I would enjoy driving.

Our spirited driving years are not getting any longer.

call a specialist. consign with a high end boutique dealer. I'm sure their bots already called you. Get $$$ and relax. When you feel remorse, count the $$$.
Joe

Dan
Have sent you a message.

To me, selling and buying a 3.2 is a great idea. You are not leaving the appreciation ladder and I think you will have a much better driving car that is still every bit raw, visceral and porsche. To be blunt, we all know the T is the lesser longhood. Id wager that there is a better chance that the 3.2 sees more appreciation than the T in the coming years, and with the price you might get for the T you have have a very nice G50 coupe...

No bad choices...

Whoops!
Bumping bc I have not touched the car and finally ordered a COA.
Hopefully COA arrives by month's end. Would like to sell before the fall / winter.

Just list it on ebay with your best photos.
Or, bringatrailer.
Simplify your life.
Pay some bills.
Relax, breath easier.
You realize you have something special, and you do, but you just don't have the time for it.

There, hows that? :)

PM sent

Put it in Bring A Trailer auctions. Porsche seem to do VERY well in that venue. Good thing you didn't sell a few years ago. Your car has doubled in value since then.

Indeed.

It's fun to read what we all thought about values 3 years ago.

Bump.

Things that have changed:
- Purchased a complete, rebuilt 2.4 with Webers from another (relatively local) forum member a few years back for $7500. It sits covered on a rolling cart waiting for install.
- dropped drivetrain, ID'd trans leak as just input shaft seal, had flywheel resurfaced, tin powdercoated
- pulled rear calipers to rebuild, planned on installing all Elephant rear bushings, SC spring plates, RTABs, and found an area needing repair around the driver's side torsion bar where it exits the body. Ground away undercoating, pics avail to show.

Work again stalled. Had to evict tenant from rental property, and get that house listed and sold.
I need to get moving on our house, so it is move on from this project, and am wondering if it makes more sense to list as a lot or piecemeal.

Google drive folder with lots of pics avail. Looking for valuation guidance. Have had some time wasting tire kicker uber lowball types sniffing around.

LOL, I was totally confused by the prior advice in this thread then I saw the date this was originally posted.

Why don't you develop a reasonable reserve in your head and shuttle it off to BaT? You'll almost certainly get top dollar there.

Sounds good, but they are pretty backed up and I want to move this car before the snow flies. It couldn't hurt to submit to them. Maybe I will try ebay.