Thinking about sellling or trading my car. Value?

[deathpunk dan]

Guys
I bought a 1971 911T non sunroof coupe in the summer of 2007 as a project. It was previously restored in the early 90s (I have the docs) but had gone through several owners since and not driven much.

It's sepia brown, repainted 20 yrs ago. Paint, aside from a few runs, scratches etc, is in good shape. I have been working on this car on and off -mostly off since May of 2011 - but between work, home renovations, starting an MBA program this coming summer and other events...just don't see myself having a lot of time moving forward to dedicate to this car.

In the winter of 2010-2011, I worked with an experienced Porsche body work hobbyist (he's done many 356s and 901s) to replace the rockers, jack plates and tubes, as well as correct a couple of other spots. The interior is out of the car right now so I can verify the lack of floor and seat pan rust. (a tiny amount of superficial stuff on the seat bottom area but not the parcel shelf etc. Nothing an hour with a wire brush and POR 15 won't decisively deal with). Many of the panels including the fenders and floors were replaced at the time of the 1991ish restoration.

Mechanically, the car runs and drives good. It does have some oil leaks and the transmission has leak that will need to be dealt with. Its toward the front of the car. It has an allegedly rebuilt 2.2 (not the original engine) with Zeniths. I have a set of USA Weber 40s I rebuilt a couple of years ago but have sat in a box ever since. I also have a freshly rebuilt 008 Bosch dizzy (Ed @ Vintage Werks did it, comes with a curve chart etc). And a nice 006 E distributor as well. Not sure what is on the current engine. The original engine is on a furniture dolly. I removed it due to low compression and oil leaks.

The car has a nice Bischoff muffler, new gaskets, silicon bronze bolts, new muffler hanger. The heat exchangers are in nice shape. The heater flapper valves are frozen. Not sure if its the cables or flappers themselves.

I replaced the motor mounts.

Neither engine has Carrera tensioners. The current engine does have the safety collars. I have a complete set of Carrera tensioners and oil lines waiting to go on.

I replaced all the throttle linkage bushings and adjusted. Have not replaced the pedal cluster bushings but I have a new bronze set waiting for install.

The car has new Bilsteins all around. New OEM 930 tie rods. Elephant rubber A arm bushings, camber plate bushings installed. I have Elephant RTABs and spring plate bushings as well as a set of 911SC spring plates not installed.

I rebuilt the front calipers and have the rebuild kits for the rear but have not done them yet. Also have new rotors for the rear not installed. Up front I replaced the hard and flex lines (braided SS ones), dust shields, Zimmerman rotors and pagid or similar pads. Wheel bearings were just checked and lubed. I had the boge strut housings and the underbelly panel powdercoated while I was at it.

The car has very nice flat 15x6 real fuchs and 205/60 BFG G sports with ~1500 miles on them.

I installed real Bosch euro H4s. The headlight switch should be replaced as it shorted. The car has a rennline smuggler's box battery kit installed with an Odyssey 925 battery.

It also has a nice Appbiz black lightweight carpet kit waiting for install. I have Recaro SE cloth seats with wedge engineering seat bases. PEP 3 point seatbelts are installed. I do have the map and door pockets. Missing a few hinge pieces for the hinged pockets. Nice prototipo 350mm wheel. I have the original stock wheel in nice shape too.

I also have the original tan front stock seats. The seat bottom cushions are very tired. The upholstery itself is not terrible.

I'm sure I am forgetting a ton more. I keep very, very detailed receipts and have all of the early 90s restoration receipts as well, all in a folder. I am into this car for over 20k at this point. Here's what it looked like last time it saw daylight, May 2011. This is when I drove it home from doing the body work.



I'm trying to figure out whether I should keep going slowly as time allows and have a very nice car in a few yrs with a massive amount of my money, time, sweat, and tears in it . OR should I sell and find a driver grade 3.0/3.2 and enjoy the thrill of driving a 911 but be able to better focus on these other non-hobby things in my life.

What is the going rate for a car like mine? I know they are not going backwards in value and solid LWB non sunroof cars are not easy to find. I also realize it is a work in progress.

[gshiwota]

Keep it. Unless you need the money, hold onto it. It sounds like a really solid car with all of the hard stuff taken care of.

[bwall]

Originally Posted by gshiwota

Keep it. Unless you need the money, hold onto it. It sounds like a really solid car with all of the hard stuff taken care of.

This sounds like good advice to me. Again, 'unless you need the money'. . .. . ..

[samjepperson]

I have gone from a 71S Targa to a 71S Race Car to a 85 Carrera to a 91 Carrera 2 and back finally to a 72T Coupe restoration project (sepia brown like yours) in a five year time horizon. I will tell you from my experience there is nothing more rewarding then working on your own car and knowing that you won't see 10 others just like it.

While the later Carrera's have more power and modern (but still dated) conveniences, they never "spoke" to me and I was always missing the feeling of an early car. So I say keep your 71 as you have a lot of time invested and a majority of the hard parts are already done. It looks like an excellent car that will bring years of enjoyment and the possibility of good appreciation.

BUT if you want to sell it I would not take any less than $30-$35K for the car. That is based on following the market closely for the last 9 months in which the long hoods have just skyrocketed (if you can find a nice one).

Good luck and happy motoring!

[deathpunk dan]

Thanks for your responses. I am still figuring out what to do. I am leaning slightly towards selling and buying a driver 3.0/3.2...and using the rest of the $ towards the house. We'll see.

Thanks again.

[Sunroof]

Dan,
About price, the latest Excellence (may 2012) which features Bruce Anderson's latest values on early 911's lists the 1971 911T coupe with a low of 22k and high of 33.4K. Some use his prices as a guide others ridicule the heck out of his estimates in this forum. I have been saving the May issues that feature the early car value assessments for years and one thing I agree on; the longhood prices are climbing and coming back! We are over the hump and Anderson claims that, the early 911's will exceed the 356's as collectibles. I would agree with his assessment that they are the next 356s.

You have too much sweat and time into it so it makes sense to hang onto the car and move along unless you can get ABSOLUTE top dollar right now. Tough choice, but you really know the answer............................................ ........................keep it.

Bob
1973.5T in Sepia of course

[deathpunk dan]

Sigh.
Pulled her out of the garage for the first time in 2 years last month. This is after a quick wash (no wax etc) to shake the dust off.







I either need to get back to this car or sell and get into a driver SC/3.2.
Have values changed appreciably in the last 18 months?

[vracer]

Very interesting. The pictures show a much nicer car than you describe. EBay buyer beware of this phenomena.

[mattC2993]

With project cars nearing $20k I wouldn't sell for $30k. I would start asking around high 30's and see what happens.

[Matt Monson]

Love the color.

[dporsche74]

Ive seen these T's in the 100K as of late.. if everything checks out ..

[TV74911S]

I have followed your rebuild posts and have really admired the work you've done on the car and was wondering what you have been up to as I hadn't come across a post from you in awhile. If it is strictly a matter of time - and not a financial situation you are dealing with - keep it.

Every person who has sold a car like yours has ultimately lived to regret the decision.

[mattC2993]

Originally Posted by dporsche74

Ive seen these T's in the 100K as of late.. if everything checks out ..

100k? I'd better get cracking on getting my '70 restored then

[CountD]

"I subscribe to the law of contrary public opinion… If everyone thinks one thing, then I say, bet the other way..."


Sell it. Sell it now get as much as you can because the market is so hot, take the extra dough for the house and buy a 3.2. Make sure you do get another 911 with your dough but I would sell it now and get a nice clean 3.2 that you can drive, have the experience, won't have to worry about rust and all the small things and save lots and lots of your time, sweat and energy. Most of all, time...you won't regret it if you get a clean 3.2. Let it go.

PS. Life is short, and when you can enjoy a hobby without getting all 'hobby' about the hobby, it clears your mind. I have struggled with this, and have let things go in exchange for time and dough.

[WPOZZZ]

Hagerty (8/2013) has a 71 911t valued as:

cond 1 - $66.6k
cond 2 - $46.1k
cond 3 - $37.1k
cond 4 - $22.7k

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vc=1282611

[blau911]

Dan,
The car looks generally nicer in the photos than what you describe. The paint has a nice gloss to it, and the wheels and muffler tip really sparkle..
The only big issue holding the car back from being a real collector piece is the non original motor in the car now and the fact that the original motor needs a rebuild. You mention your concern over the tranny leaking as well, which may mean the motor and tranny could need to be pulled to deal with the leak so you could kill two birds with one stone.

One suggestion: don't install the App Biz carpet kit. Sure, it's okay but for the $200 they cost, the material quality is poor compared to the good original german stuff. How are the dash and door pockets? A nice clean original interior would push the price up as well...

[deathpunk dan]

Thank you all for the feedback.

WRT the carpet:
The original (or possibly replaced during the 1991 restoration) carpet had to come up when we did the rockers. I was able to remove some but not all without damaging it, so I saw this as an opportunity to re-do the interior to match the black cloth Recaro SE seats. Hence the appbiz carpet kit sitting in a box in a spare bedroom.

I had started working on the interior and then shifted focus to the house. I instead reroofed/sided/new kitchen etc (still a long, long way to go on the house front) and the car has been sitting more or less since.

The dash is decent but does have one crack around the speaker area.
No radio. P/O installed some garbage 90s head unit that I removed.

The door & map pocket pieces are mostly accounted for. The smaller map pockets are in nice shape. One of the door pockets is decent, the other one is missing the trim and could use some love. I was going to make composite (fiberglass) recreations using the originals as a mold, and re-cover in black vinyl. The hinge pieces are missing.

It is a pretty car and a longhood is something I won't be in a position to have again for quite some time should I sell. I don't really care about speed anymore, but I do like the smooth, more user friendly nature of the later cars.

I swore my next bonus would go straight to the car and let me do what I really want - first get a COA to confirm the other engine is # matching, then have Supertec rebuild it to stock+, add new SSIs etc. While I had it out I would deal with the trans leak, replace the heater flapper valves and cables, install my Elephant Racing RTABs and my SC adj spring plates etc.

The interior could be done correctly after that.
The things right now keeping me from executing that plan:

1. We (the co I work for) have had a tough year growth wise. Bonus questionable.
2. So much house 'stuff' to do.
3. Single car garage, tough to get cracking over the winter.
4. Opportunity cost of significant addt'l funds thrown at the car right now vs investing/other house projects/other.

I guess the next thing to do is itemize everything that needs to be done and come up with accurate time/cost figures. This will help me make a smarter decision.

To be continued!

[dporsche74]

with values 50-100K right now
it is totally worth making every effort and everything correct.
the parts are cheap compared to the whole now a days
Its a nice car no-doubt .. maybe next summer get lucky 100K+

[blau911]

Dan,
Funny how if you posted this thread 2-3 years ago, everyone would have been ridiculing the color of your car as "floater brown". Now no one here as anything negative to say about sepia being an unpopular and ugly color. Colors and styles change quickly...

Originally Posted by deathpunk dan

Thank you all for the feedback.

WRT the carpet:
The original (or possibly replaced during the 1991 restoration) carpet had to come up when we did the rockers. I was able to remove some but not all without damaging it, so I saw this as an opportunity to re-do the interior to match the black cloth Recaro SE seats. Hence the appbiz carpet kit sitting in a box in a spare bedroom.

I had started working on the interior and then shifted focus to the house. I instead reroofed/sided/new kitchen etc (still a long, long way to go on the house front) and the car has been sitting more or less since.

The dash is decent but does have one crack around the speaker area.
No radio. P/O installed some garbage 90s head unit that I removed.

The door & map pocket pieces are mostly accounted for. The smaller map pockets are in nice shape. One of the door pockets is decent, the other one is missing the trim and could use some love. I was going to make composite (fiberglass) recreations using the originals as a mold, and re-cover in black vinyl. The hinge pieces are missing.

It is a pretty car and a longhood is something I won't be in a position to have again for quite some time should I sell. I don't really care about speed anymore, but I do like the smooth, more user friendly nature of the later cars.

I swore my next bonus would go straight to the car and let me do what I really want - first get a COA to confirm the other engine is # matching, then have Supertec rebuild it to stock+, add new SSIs etc. While I had it out I would deal with the trans leak, replace the heater flapper valves and cables, install my Elephant Racing RTABs and my SC adj spring plates etc.

The interior could be done correctly after that.
The things right now keeping me from executing that plan:

1. We (the co I work for) have had a tough year growth wise. Bonus questionable.
2. So much house 'stuff' to do.
3. Single car garage, tough to get cracking over the winter.
4. Opportunity cost of significant addt'l funds thrown at the car right now vs investing/other house projects/other.

I guess the next thing to do is itemize everything that needs to be done and come up with accurate time/cost figures. This will help me make a smarter decision.

To be continued!

[techweenie]

High $20s, easily, if you can confirm the second engine is matching. You should ask $32-33 in any case, just because we know there are a few Sepia Stalwarts out there...