At what point is a 911 not worth it???

[wgwollet]

It's hard to get a decent deal from a dealer, not impossible but hard. Good cars bring good money, in theory buying the best you can afford is wise. Lets say you buy a nice 964 with 80-90k miles and pay a $5000 premium. It might pay off, you must keep the car for awhile but not a bad approach because it's worth the premium of not doing so much fix up....so be careful of just prices...look for dry original cars...harder to fine you say?.....yes but the hunt could be fun, but put time constraints on the hunt...gee the main purpose of a 911 is ownership, driving and fun...

Try to buy from Porsche guys that owned the car or PCA guys who enjoyed their cars and now want to move forward. Go to great shows like Hershey or PCA meets like Porsche to Oxford, where owners could be selling in the car corrals...but understand good deals are not common in any classic collectible car today. The Internet, has just about changed all that expect for the few who hate computers...

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by msort81

What do you know about that car that tells you its worth 30k all day long ?

"Most of these cars that are looked after do not have to be taken apart" Really How naive are you. You should understand that just because a dealer asks a high price doesn't mean the car is worth that number. Honeestly Its is you that has "no clue on the (real) values of these cars"

Not sure what you are saying here but its clear an excellent 3.2 in that color is a 30k car and if you notice it sold?

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by sm70911

Although I think it could be said better I agree 100%

The 3.2 Valve guides are an issue and there is no mention of that work being done. If you are eager to part with your money to a dealer and you want to pay thirty thousand plus for a cab or Targa, that you might have to spend another $5 to 10k on that's your right.

Not all 3.2's exhibit or need valve guides. Plenty (majority) of cars don't. I know many with 200k running great with no issues.

In a nutshell as part of a PPI you can determine if the car has issues.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

Not sure what you are saying here but its clear an excellent 3.2 in that color is a 30k car and if you notice it sold?

How do you know its a quote 'excellent' car. Have you seen the car or do you base that on the pictures and description. Just because it 'sold' it doesn't mean its a good car.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

Not all 3.2's exhibit or need valve guides. Plenty (majority) of cars don't. I know many with 200k running great with no issues.

In a nutshell as part of a PPI you can determine if the car has issues.

In a PPI if the car still has the cat on and there is no verifiable information on Oil consumption, then it is difficult to know weather valve guides are worn or not.

I'm curious when you say 'many'. How many 3.2's do you know that have not had valve guide issues and what is their mileage.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by msort81

How do you know its a quote 'excellent' car. Have you seen the car or do you base that on the pictures and description. Just because it 'sold' it doesn't mean its a good car.

Clearly we don't know either way. But assuming the buyer did his due dilligence and it was then 30k plus seems the right price IMHO in that color. A coupe would have been more.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by msort81

In a PPI if the car still has the cat on and there is no verifiable information on Oil consumption, then it is difficult to know weather valve guides are worn or not.

I'm curious when you say 'many'. How many 3.2's do you know that have not had valve guide issues and what is their mileage.

I owned 2 with no problems and have owned others without, all with miles under 100k. In fact I have never had one with them. I will caveat that with the fact I have not had one with cats. Friends have very high miles cars (300k plus) without a problem.

I was under the impression if the symtoms didn't appear with low mid miles (under 70k) than you were good. In other words if the car is 25 years old and has 130k miles it is either good or bad and unlikely to develop the issue?

[msort81]

There's no we in this.

I assume every car regardless of glossy pics or shiny paint is a POS until I see otherwise. Just like a recent thread on a 'Lowe Mileage' car at RAC in Tx.
I think that green Targa and the cab are overpriced, based on what little information is provided. If you have proof major work has been done then why not say it. Its a strong selling point.

Ive had and have some very desirable Porsches and by following my rules to date I haven't overpaid for a car or bought a POS.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

I owned 2 with no problems and have owned others without, all with miles under 100k. In fact I have never had one with them. I will caveat that with the fact I have not had one with cats. Friends have very high miles cars (300k plus) without a problem.

I was under the impression if the symtoms didn't appear with low mid miles (under 70k) than you were good. In other words if the car is 25 years old and has 130k miles it is either good or bad and unlikely to develop the issue?

Ha Ive got some water here. Any chance you can turn it into wine.

[COLB]

Try to buy from Porsche guys that owned the car or PCA guys who enjoyed their cars and now want to move forward. Go to great shows like Hershey or PCA meets like Porsche to Oxford, where owners could be selling in the car corrals...but understand good deals are not common in any classic collectible car today. The Internet, has just about changed all that expect for the few who hate computers…

Good advice, but don't expect a "deal" in the car corral at Hershey. Plenty of Porsche owners price in their sentimental attachment to the car -- especially enthusiasts selling them at car shows.

That was certainly my impression last year.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by COLB

Good advice, but don't expect a "deal" in the car corral at Hershey. Plenty of Porsche owners price in their sentimental attachment to the car -- especially enthusiasts selling them at car shows.

That was certainly my impression last year.

The publicity about auction prices this past year has given people bizarre notions of value. I was recently offered a '65 911 needing five figures of rust repair and with a non-matching engine for $100K. People are asking near $40K for garden-variety SCs and Carreras... There were always people like that in the marketplace, but they represent a bigger chunk now than ever in my memory.

[dienstuhr]

Originally Posted by msort81

Personally without more info I can't speculate, but for that price I would want a complete mechanical history available. Look beyond the immediate cosmetics.

I have no connection to this seller, but here is a car that checks all the boxes for me, and if you can put in some work on the cosmetics just reading through whats been done, and the overall attention to mechanical's over cosmetics this is a car I would be very very seriously considering
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/795422-1981-porsche-911-sc.html

Anyone with a screwdriver and socket set, can replace a door panel, rear deck lid, and front fogs if you are so inclined. You can find map pockets on parts F/S. You could get the car detailed and see the extent of the chips on the front bumper and lower valance if you are so inclined. All very simple fixes.

If I was in the market Id probably be on a plane right now.

Very strong money for a car that looks beat to hell. I'd have been ashamed to post those pictures, especially asking $25K.

Yes, anything cosmetic can be fixed. But it's pretty rare to see a car that's been "meticulously maintained" with cosmetics that look like that. Surely a person could find an example that has painted bodywork, a non-butchered interior, rocker panels that haven't been crushed, and intact front and rear valances, for $25K?

Or maybe I have been forever compromised by my own experience buying a 3.2 in 2010. Is this really the market now?

Cheers

d.

[msort81]

Originally Posted by dienstuhr

Very strong money for a car that looks beat to hell. I'd have been ashamed to post those pictures, especially asking $25K.

Yes, anything cosmetic can be fixed. But it's pretty rare to see a car that's been "meticulously maintained" with cosmetics that look like that. Surely a person could find an example that has painted bodywork, a non-butchered interior, rocker panels that haven't been crushed, and intact front and rear valances, for $25K?

Or maybe I have been forever compromised by my own experience buying a 3.2 in 2010. Is this really the market now?

Cheers

d.

I personally would start at a lower number and if it didn't end where I'm comfortable then i wouldn't buy it.
However a split case re build represents a very solid starting point for me. And the bolt on upgrades are quality parts. Everything else cosmetic would be a weekends work, with the exception of getting the bumper painted.

I like the color, and the attitude of the car, but then I could see it beyond the obvious dirty interior. Sure the owner could do better in terms of pics and presentation, but that also tells me the cars been used in the right way and was built to be driven not just polished.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by msort81

I personally would start at a lower number and if it didn't end where I'm comfortable then i wouldn't buy it.
However a split case re build represents a very solid starting point for me. And the bolt on upgrades are quality parts. Everything else cosmetic would be a weekends work, with the exception of getting the bumper painted.

I like the color, and the attitude of the car, but then I could see it beyond the obvious dirty interior. Sure the owner could do better in terms of pics and presentation, but that also tells me the cars been used in the right way and was built to be driven not just polished.

I agree with you, except for implication all the car needs in terms of external cosmetics is the bumper painted.

As a driver, the money the owner spent is in the right place. If you are buying it as a DE car, then there is no need to paint anything. Keep the ducktail and drive the piss out of it.

But if you want the body fully sorted, it needs a new deck lid, possibly new rocker panels (they look crushed to me), and a full respray. That is much more than a weekend of work if you are doing it yourself, or a lot of money if farming it out -- how much obviously depends on the quality of paint job you want.

If you have to do the bumper, hood, rockers, and rear deck -- you may as well do the whole car, or it will look like a spotted leopard when you are done.

[faverymi]

Originally Posted by COLB

I agree with you, except for implication all the car needs in terms of external cosmetics is the bumper painted.

As a driver, the money the owner spent is in the right place. If you are buying it as a DE car, then there is no need to paint anything. Keep the ducktail and drive the piss out of it.

But if you want the body fully sorted, it needs a new deck lid, possibly new rocker panels (they look crushed to me), and a full respray. That is much more than a weekend of work if you are doing it yourself, or a lot of money if farming it out -- how much obviously depends on the quality of paint job you want.

If you have to do the bumper, hood, rockers, and rear deck -- you may as well do the whole car, or it will look like a spotted leopard when you are done.

So Where would you price the car at?
Mechanically sound, cosmetically challenged.
I'm asking because I'm always in the market for something interesting.

Another point to discuss. Do we put more value to a mechanically perfect car that needs cosmetics or a beautiful shiny car that needs a rebuild? (" Rusty cars need not apply please")

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by faverymi

Another point to discuss. Do we put more value to a mechanically perfect car that needs cosmetics or a beautiful shiny car that needs a rebuild? (" Rusty cars need not apply please")

In the case of Porsche, I am firmly in the "buy a car that has cosmetic flaws but excellent mechanicals" camp. A full engine/trans rebuild costs a lot more than a full high-quality paint job. Add in fixing the interior, and now we are talking about on-par types of fixing costs. Now, you can reduce the costs of mechanical work by doing the disassembly/reassembly yourself (and that's not hard), but comparing professional work mechanical and professional work cosmetic restoration, you're probably looking at more to fix the running gear than interior/exterior.

For cars that need minor mechanical work, but have excellent paint/interior, it's no question to buy that car over a car with recent rebuilds underneath and some cosmetic challenges outside and inside. Everything is on a spectrum, and the balance that you choose has to fit with your ability to do the work or pay to have the work done.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by msort81

There's no we in this.

I assume every car regardless of glossy pics or shiny paint is a POS until I see otherwise. Just like a recent thread on a 'Lowe Mileage' car at RAC in Tx.
I think that green Targa and the cab are overpriced, based on what little information is provided. If you have proof major work has been done then why not say it. Its a strong selling point.

Ive had and have some very desirable Porsches and by following my rules to date I haven't overpaid for a car or bought a POS.

Lets step back a little here:

You are saying the Boca cars are overpriced yet one has sold and the other from the photos looks excellent and is also in a good color.

You offer up no realistic value on either car on the assumption they are good. Do you think they overpriced if they check out as good? If so what do you think is market for them? I think they are both worth 30k plus how about you on the assumption they check out good?

You say they are POS and overpriced yet haven't seen them. Why give an opinion based on zero fact? As I said before we do not know the condition of either car so its patently unfair to call them bad just because there is not enough information.

When I asked you specifically what was wrong with the blue cab you didn't reply.

Seems to me you either have an issue with the particular indivdual seller or are just uninformed.

[1968SWTs]

when are they not worth it? IMO when they are more expensive than a 58 bmw 507 , a ferrari 365gt, or a Dino
they are getting close

although I would prefer the 911

or you can compare to a new car - but you have to double the price to account for depreciation.. 130K for a great new car- compare what 260K buys - maybe they are still not worth it!

[msort81]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

Lets step back a little here:

You are saying the Boca cars are overpriced yet one has sold and the other from the photos looks excellent and is also in a good color.

You offer up no realistic value on either car on the assumption they are good. Do you think they overpriced if they check out as good? If so what do you think is market for them?

You say they are POS and overpriced yet haven't seen them. Why give an opinion based on zero fact? As I said before we do not know the condition of either car so its patently unfair to call them bad just because there is not enough information.

When I asked you specifically what was wrong with the blue cab you didn't reply.

Seems to me you either have an issue with the particular indivdual seller or are just talking crap.

Hi Coco
Either you have dyslexia or you cant be bothered to read my post properly. As for "talking crap" well that quite clearly falls to you. How many 3.2's is it you know the mechanical ins and outs of again LMAO LOL ...

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by msort81

Hi Coco
Either you have dyslexia or you cant be bothered to read my post properly. As for "talking crap" well that quite clearly falls to you. How many 3.2's is it you know the mechanical ins and outs of again LMAO LOL ...

Yeah I can read and by your lack of response to the questions again its pretty clear you have no substantive answers. In which case your opinions are just that and not much more. Certainly no foundation in them or value to anyone considering either of the cars IMHO.