I think the OP was pretty concise in his explanation of how he views any car he is interested in, and to me it makes sense. Don't trust pics of shiny paint and don't believe anything until you see it in the paper history. Simple. it strikes me its you who has no idea about these cars.

Very well said. Normally the two go hand in hand -- a poorly kept car is generally going to be both maintenance challenged and tatty. But some bias one way or the other.

If you buy the mechanically excellent car, you can always drive it while you sort the cosmetics -- not necessarily so the other way around.

The advice about "buying the best you can afford" comes into play here. If your budget is limited, buy a car you can drive...and will pass inspection/emissions as is.

You are much less likely to have buyers remorse. Interior fixes can be made a bit at a time.

I dont think Whiterabbit has really explained why he thinks the Boca Porsche cars are such good deals ? Nice pics sure but anyone with basic photoshop can make a car look good in pics, and you wopuld never know it. With all dealers cars being 'Sold' is a relative thing ;) so thats no indicator of quality.

Actually, his opinions are very good advice. And anyone buying a used car would be wise to take those opinions to heart.

Spiffy ad copy is great. Well-done photography can hide more than it shows. What really counts is the actual car and the paperwork that comes with that car.

Ad copy and photography does absolutely nothing to tell you the actual condition of the car or the trustworthiness of the seller. How does the seller's garage look? Clean and organized? Well, that might give you a clue as to how that person keeps his cars. How do his other cars look? Crap-looking inside and out? Red flag. Dealer with lots of inventory and steady pressure to buy without allowing you to look the car over? Big red flag.

But that stuff only very rarely makes it into ad copy or photos. You can't really form an opinion about a particular Porsche until you see it up close. And it's best for your bank account to assume from the start that the car is about ready to be disassembled for parts, rather than be distracted by ad copy or artful pics.

Finally, there is very rarely an ad that contains enough information to make a sound judgement on pricing. That's why many of us make assumptions about stuff - like receipts, inside storage, no gross mischaracterizations of condition, etc. when we are talking about pricing.

If someone is really serious about buying ANY used car, his position is the smart one to take.

I didn't say they were good deals I said they were priced right IF they check out with a PPI etc. IMHO both cars are worth 30k plus if they check out. Its not often these days you see a blue or green 3.2 with less than 100k miles.

What I called to task was people saying the cars were POS and not worth the money without any reasoning or seeing them. I am fine with saying a car is a dog but there must be a proven reason why.

The value of a car to me is in originality, something special and condition. Although there are too many fake original cars these days.

Problem with 911's is there really wasn't a huge HP jump model besides going 930. Besides colors no real special versions under the 100k mark. Early Hot Rods bring $50-75k.


I love the look of early 911's but they are just getting tired and you really have to be able to look past the issues and enjoy the drive. My original point was at say $35k are you willing to still look past all the "issues" and just enjoy the ride? To me I am loosing interest.

The HP wars are going strong these days and it is hard to pass on some later model steals that aren't collector cars. What keeps me away is the electronics, I hate them.


I drive my dinosaur E34 Dinan stroker M5 everyday and it now probably has a value of $15k which is just what the engine cost. Point is for $15k it is a killer car and $15k less then a lot of 911's. There are a lot of fun cars out there that are still priced where 911's were 3 months ago.

This has drifted a bit from the original topic... you guys are over analyzing and taking this too seriously. Let's break it down to the basics...

The value of air cooled cars is on the rise, just like the stock market you need to determine if it's a bubble and if you should buy in or not.

Know the marque - educate yourself on on the particulars of the various model years, their improvements and weigh their value. Short hood vs. long hood, 2.7 vs. 3.0 vs. 3.2, 915 vs. G50, etc. This may also be determined by your budget.

Determine your budget - purchase + making it right + maintaining it.

Have your finances in order. If your budget is X, have X in cash or quickly available.

Eyes and hands on a car are key. It's easy to search the Internet and find cars, but don't trust descriptions an photos. eBay/Autotrader/Cars.com can be a good/bad. look for cars that are within a few hours driving distance where you can personally inspect them before completing a transaction.

PPI. It depends on how much you know and feel comfortable assessing and how good the deal is. If you're new to the marque and paying top dollar, get a PPI.

Stock cars will almost always be worth more than modified cars.

Be patient. You could drive 10 cars and they will all feel different, with time you'll learn what's right and what's not... eventually, you'll find "the one".

Sorry for being Captain Obvious to some, but I think a lot of this (the basics) gets lost when folks start debating these cars and their values.

No that's exactly what you don't get. The OP gave really terrific advice to anyone who wants a classic Porsche. He said he is not sold on shiny paint in pictures and doesn't believe any description until he sees proof. There was no proof of service history or re build. And for all your carping about how the car 'sold' FYI the green car which has quote 'sold' is still listed on other sites as well as the dealers own site.

Dealers, as a current thread in MP shows, and some sellers are not above manipulating the facts.
I notice you went back and re edited your posts in order to tone down your rhetoric which I think was the smart thing to do all things considered. Now you should re read the OP's posts and try to understand what is very valuable advice. Especially for any car with sub 100k miles claimed.

[QUOTE=sm70911;7900792]No that's exactly what you don't get. The OP gave really terrific advice to anyone who wants a classic Porsche. He said he is not sold on shiny paint in pictures and doesn't believe any description until he sees proof. There was no proof of service history or re build. And for all your carping about how the car 'sold' FYI the green car which has quote 'sold' is still listed on other sites as well as the dealers own site.

QUOTE]

I was never responding to the OP or questioned what he said, but responded to someone else who jumped in halfway thru the thread and called the Boca cars turds without saying why: so maybe you don't get it.

Of course all dealers are not honest and cars should be checked out. So as I said none of us knows if the cars are good or bad until we check them out unless its obvious in the case of photos but to the case in point no one has givein a reason why the two Boca cars have issues . My point is people shouldn't get on here saying some of these cars are POS without giving a reason why.

As for carping on about the two Boca cars all I said was IMHO they were worth the asking if they checked out. Nothing more.

My guess is closer to $15k.

Mechanical work has much lower influence on the resale price than cosmetics.

For someone planning a full restoration, a car with bad cosmetics but perfect mechanicals is often the best deal. That's why this car will probably not sell at $25k.

In general, I think the high prices are luring out the sellers. I expect a big jump in supply this Spring and Summer. The market will have a stalemate for a while, with unrealistic $35k prices, or like this, $25k for their POS 911. And then prices will drop once the sellers adjust their prices, once they've mentally committed to selling b/c of the higher price market.

I tend to agree. There are many great used sports cars that you can get for $15k. I'm not sure what my price range is, but it's hard to spend $20k-$30k on a used 25 year old car when you can get something almost brand new for that much money. Frankly, at this point, I'd be embarrassed to tell someone I paid $20k-$30k for a 25 year old car. You can get a brand new WRX for that kind of money. Or an M-series car. Or a Nissan Z, etc. If you get one with 100k miles, you can get 2 or 3 for the price of a used 911. At the least, I'd rather spend the $30k on a 997 and get a car that is TWENTY years newer.

I think it comes down to the fact that either you want a 911 or you don't. A 911 isn't going to win a "logic" contest HP/$, Handing/$, etc.

For me I've always wanted a 911, and quite frankly a boxster, WRX, Nissan Z, 996, 997 aren't going to fill the void.

LMAO. What an idiotic comparison.

There is NOBODY, ANYWHERE cross-shopping an aircooled 911 and a WRX.

By this logic, there are folks cross-shopping aircooled 911s and Honda minivans.

LOL.

Is it time to lock the thread? There's no point is continuing to say nothing.

I think the OP's original question is really about at what price point will the average impact bumper 911 level off at. Let's say a really nice SC or 3.2, fully sorted is now 30k. The question is "what else in terms of either Porsche or classic sports cars can. I get for 30k that won't depreciate?" A middle of the road muscle car? A really nice 996?

For me, a sorted 3.2 Carrera is a still value at 30k. Is it a value at 40k? Not sure as all kinds of other options are there at 40.

As long as PushingMyAgenda is making stupid comparisons, you are absolutely correct.

Boy golly, every time you type, you look increasingly stupid.

Why do you think this thread was even started?
B/c people were precisely cross shopping their 3.2 aspirations to other cars.
B/c paying $30k (plus another $15k for a rebuild) for a 25 year old car is nuts in many circles.

*I* am cross shopping a S2000, 3.2 911, WRX, and an M3/M5.
I'm also considering a Camaro, GTO, Chevelle, or Nova.
QED, bozo.

I don't give a **** about badges or pedigree.
I want a fun depreciated car that is DIY friendly.
And there are thousands just like me who are cross shopping all sorts of toys.

In all sincerity if people are cross shopping a WRX or M3 against an air cooled 911 then they are going to be disappointed. You either want the air cooled 911 or you don't. Its either in the blood or it isn't. You must have the passion. If you are not 100% into the Porsche history and pedigree then you will be forever unhappy with repairs, performance and parts costs. The 911 is more than just a car, its a car for life and as they get older they get better :)

I have an Audi s4 as well as my 911 but the Audi is basically an appliance that will soon be replaced by a newer version whereas the 911 is irreplacable.

I would still want and buy a 3.2 911 if they double in price from where they are right now as I can't really think of a better car including later water cooled 911's which hold zero interest for me.

Likewise if I could afford a 1973 911s at 150k I would rather have one that a new 991.

About the only car I have any interest in other than an air cooled 911 is maybe a BMW 3.0 CSL, Alpha GTV or Etype. If I came into money I would probably just buy more 911's like Magnus and co.

That's why nobody actually does that.

The cars aren't really comparable in anything except purchase price and that they are indeed automobiles.

Might as well talk about low-mileage Civics or Accords. After all, those cars could probably out-perform just about any non-turbo 3.2 or earlier 911 in every phase of driving.

The comparison is ridiculous.

If do don't own a 911, and don't really want a 911, then why are you continuously posting here and on Rennlist?

One can only assume that you like the idea of a classic Porsche, but not the reality of it. Fair enough. It is good that you have discovered this before actually buying a car.

I think the whole board is looking forward to you buying a Nissan or a Subaru so you can go troll their boards with questions about why Subies burn so much gas, develop leaky head gaskets, and eat clutches. SmileWavy