Because SCs are skyrocketing, 996s worth another look?

[bcrdukes]

Currently a non-Porsche owner here, but always have been a fan of the air cooled SC and Carreras.

I've been in the market for quite some time - a few years ago, there were excellent examples of SCs anywhere from $16,500 topping out at $21,000 for a pristine one.

Now? They're anywhere from $18,500 to $28,000. The 2003+'ish 996s have dropped down to $25,500 to $35,000 with all their quirks sorted out.

One thing that really stands out is that love for the aircooled cars are gaining traction on the web while the 996 still suffers from its plagued IMS and RMS problems.

[G450X]

Originally Posted by Cluskera

one other factor I was going to label as 'small' and as I type I'm less sure - the number of SCs being backdated to look like early cars or become early cars.

That too presses on supply. The SC experiences this an awful lot . More may have been made but I wonder how many SCs still on the road are even still true SCs.....this too squeezes supply...

Only now perhaps is the strength of an SC (proper unmolested with heritage) being realized.

Interesting view on the SC. I actually had the intent of backdating my nice SC, but now that I've collected most of the bits (and in light of the recent appreciation in value), I'm not so sure!

I sought to personalize my 911 similar to a '73 RS (a car which I can't afford), because I loved the long hood look and the historical significance of that car. The fact that it weighed less with the dainty bumpers was a performance bonus.

I guess I should just be happy I nabbed one a few years ago before the boon and call it good...

[ficke]

One rule of thumb with Porsches, and really most other cars is that the more the car is good as a daily driver the worst it will stand the test of time or become a collector car. For instance with the early 911's the T's are better DD to the S's but are worth less than the S. Same goes with added features like Sport Seats, which are much harder to deal with on a daily bases for getting in and out of the car than the stock seats but the sports seats are worth more by quite a bit. The same is pretty much true with all features.
So anything that makes a car fun and unique usually makes it harder to live with as a DD. That is why the new DD Porsche to appeal to a broader market have become some what boring and there is this mass desire to buy the early cars which or worse in every way compared to the new DD Porsches except the fun factor.
Now the new fun Porsche's like the CGT is not a good DD.
So I do not see this comparison of the SC, fun car, to a 996, good DD, They have become different cars which solve different needs and if you by for the wrong reason you will be disappointed.

[ROW911SC]

Originally Posted by G450X

Interesting view on the SC. I actually had the intent of backdating my nice SC, but now that I've collected most of the bits (and in light of the recent appreciation in value), I'm not so sure!

I sought to personalize my 911 similar to a '73 RS (a car which I can't afford), because I loved the long hood look and the historical significance of that car. The fact that it weighed less with the dainty bumpers was a performance bonus.

I guess I should just be happy I nabbed one a few years ago before the boon and call it good...

This exactly describes the nagging doubt I've had about backdating my SC. I'm a purist at heart and have been unable to pull the trigger and order a set of SSIs. My exhaust needs to be replaced one way or the other, but a small voice inside has been telling me to keep it stock. And the guaranteed value of my collector car coverage was bumped up significantly last year...

[COLB]

How many SCs are actually getting backdated?

I can't imagine it is more than a few hundred -- certainly not enough to affect value.

With the skyrocketing value of the longhoods, sourcing parts to do it is getting prohibitive. What is the aftermarket like for these parts?

It nags my conscience to think about original parts being used to backdate an SC rather than restoring a poor bastard longhood that got an 80s "update" back in the Miami Vice days....

[eolson]

I think the 996 is a good buy for the right buyer. I found my '86 Carrera a couple of years ago at a good price and my dad got the itch to finally get a Porsche so we started to consider options for a fun daily car he could potentially drive all year. After a lot of talk we finally decided a 996 C4 would be the best choice if we found a well maintained example. We decided this because we're capable of doing most of the maintenance, right down to the IMS/RMS repairs, and because the prices are too good to ignore. If you aren't confident in doing most or all of the maintenance I think it becomes a bad option from a financial standpoint as the risk becomes too great. Obviously this is true with all Porsches but I consider my '86 far more rugged than a 996.

Funny enough, dad ended up with a Cayman, but I'd still love a 996.

[metzger]

Originally Posted by COLB

How many SCs are actually getting backdated?

I can't imagine it is more than a few hundred -- certainly not enough to affect value.

With the skyrocketing value of the longhoods, sourcing parts to do it is getting prohibitive. What is the aftermarket like for these parts?

It nags my conscience to think about original parts being used to backdate an SC rather than restoring a poor bastard longhood that got an 80s "update" back in the Miami Vice days....

I'd like to think that the majority of the backdated cars are done with fiberglass components. That's typically the case from what I've seen, although I've come across a couple with steel fenders and glass for the rest of it.

[COLB]

I'd like to think that the majority of the backdated cars are done with fiberglass components. That's typically the case from what I've seen, although I've come across a couple with steel fenders and glass for the rest of it.

That makes sense.

Just thinking about that duck-faced, yellow converted longhood...where they left the long hood, but converted the wings and bumper. Bizarre.

[Matt Monson]

There are a few places now making hoods with a relocated latch. This allows backdating as a "bolt on" affair with no new latch panel. Makes a basic backdate 100% cosmetic and reversible.

Or the more common approach is to backdate to '74 RSR look just removing the IB bumpers and replacing with glass ones.

I'm not seeing much slow down in the backdate build threads here or on RL. I don't think the market spike has influenced people much. Wouldn't influence me. I'm just waiting until I come across the right '74 candidate.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by COLB

How many SCs are actually getting backdated?

I can't imagine it is more than a few hundred -- certainly not enough to affect value.

With the skyrocketing value of the longhoods, sourcing parts to do it is getting prohibitive. What is the aftermarket like for these parts?

It nags my conscience to think about original parts being used to backdate an SC rather than restoring a poor bastard longhood that got an 80s "update" back in the Miami Vice days....

Colb I think in Europe it may be in the thousands. At least eight shops consistantly backdating. Go to pistonheads and look in the classifieds, there are more backdates than SC's. Perception is (not that I agree) an SC or 3.2 backdated is a much more civilized and reliable day to day driver especially in wet countries.

Probably very smart to start hanging on to old SC/3.2 body parts

[Cluskera]

Originally Posted by COLB

How many SCs are actually getting backdated?

I can't imagine it is more than a few hundred -- certainly not enough to affect value.

With the skyrocketing value of the longhoods, sourcing parts to do it is getting prohibitive. What is the aftermarket like for these parts?

It nags my conscience to think about original parts being used to backdate an SC rather than restoring a poor bastard longhood that got an 80s "update" back in the Miami Vice days....

Loads get backdated to be unscientific about it. It's an ideal base. Especially when it needs a bit of work and will be done as a complete project.

I'll take the point that by that measure the ones backdated aren't the best cars and might be consigned to an uncertain future anyway. That does dilute this effect. But..

There are many companies who have built careers on backdating cars and also the phenomenon of hotrodding them to look dated but fast (apologies if I'm insulting hotrodders there I'm not up to speed on the art)

The SC is frequently done as is the 964. I think Singer use the 964 chassis.

Paul Stephens uk recently expressed in a magazine their own concern of backdating good cars which themselves are becoming vintage.

Funnily enough SCs also get forward dated. I've seen many made to look like a more modern 911 .

Quick glance at eBay and viola...item 151224419077.

[COLB]

Colb I think in Europe it may be in the thousands. At least eight shops consistantly backdating.

Even at a car a month, eight shops would take a long time to backdate a 1000 cars.

But I defer to those who follow it.

[tlevine984]

Backdating the exhaust on an 911sc with SSI's coupled with a nice sport muffler is a great mod that I doubt will diminish the cars resale value. Gives the car added hp and torque.

The older cars without the modern driver nannies are a more authentic experience where you feel that for better or worse you are driving the car. The SC's are light, have great throttle response and are incredibly fun to drive on the track and as a good day driver.

[dporsche74]

What is nice now that they are the all 100k+ Cars is to make most SC and 3.2 Carrera's into
Narrow body SWB 67S..LWB Narrow body 70S. or OO 72S oil flapper " REPLICAS"

so cool... 1980-90's widened them .. the 2010 -2020 narrow them Ultimate flip flop !!

[ROW911SC]

Originally Posted by tlevine984

Backdating the exhaust on an 911sc with SSI's coupled with a nice sport muffler is a great mod that I doubt will diminish the cars resale value. Gives the car added hp and torque.

The older cars without the modern driver nannies are a more authentic experience where you feel that for better or worse you are driving the car. The SC's are light, have great throttle response and are incredibly fun to drive on the track and as a good day driver.

This is what I keep telling myself!

[Halm]

Originally Posted by tlevine984

Backdating the exhaust on an 911sc with SSI's coupled with a nice sport muffler is a great mod that I doubt will diminish the cars resale value. Gives the car added hp and torque.

I agree that SSI's and a non-stock muffer will not hurt the value of an SC. Where you run into issue, IMO, is a color change, aftermarket seats, cut up / modified door panels, aftermarket radios and alarm systems that modify wiring, and any wheel that is not Fuch, with the possible exception of correct cookie cutters.

Personally, I don't like fiberglass parts, especially 964 bumpers. Love them or hate them, impact bumpers are original.

All said, it is your car and do with it as you please. If you are buying for investment, buy accordingly and put it away in proper storage. Otherwise, go drive the piss out of the car, mod it the way you want, and enjoy it.

[Matt Monson]

Asking isn't selling, but how's this for a backdate?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/797449-sale-1978-porsche-911-rs.html

[Cluskera]

I wonder would they be insulted if I asked them to change the wing mirrors...might be my bleary eyes but they're not the Mae West.

not being a pain - it's absolutely stunning overall.

After this thread I'm just wondering if anyone will ask if they still have the SC parts !

[COLB]

I don't know anything about racecars, and I know you can drop a ton of money into performance engine parts, uber brakes, etc -- but that still seems insane at 100k.

At that price, it ought to come with a F250 diesel and a trailer to tow it.

Am I way off?

[Matt Monson]

Colb,
You aren't way off. I see people put $50k into turning an SC into a racecar pretty frequently. I don't know where the extra $25k comes in on that racecar, and thus my comment about asking prices.