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[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

If you are going to pay somebody to maintain your Porsche for you, you are probably better off eating the depreciation on a new or late model used car.

It is a pretty simple concept.

Read it out loud if that helps.

LOL, you just played his game right there. That's exactly what he wants from you. A personal attack, so he can cry about it.

[COLB]

Thats a personal attack?

I didn't call him a name. In fact, I agreed with him.

Maybe I need one of Ronnie's "kiss my butt" gifs to soften the wording.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

Thats a personal attack?

I didn't call him a name. In fact, I agreed with him.

Maybe I need one of Ronnie's "kiss my butt" gifs to soften the wording.

Ronnie is the smiley king. I bow to his greatness.

[PushingMyLuck]

The point is, you're bashing me for suggesting anyone spends any real money maintaining a 911, and the very next Ebay ad I see has a guy dropping almost $20k in 1 visit to the mechanic. Hey, it wasn't a rebuild so you're right about that...

I'm not saying it's the norm, but you're posting bad advice saying these cars are cheaper to own than Corollas. I never saw a $17k mechanic bill for a Corolla.

It's laughable to think you're found some alternate universe there Porsche, Ferrari and Lambos are cheaper to own than Honda and Toyota. If that were true, I can assure you, people would be driving more of them. There's a reason the latter are the most popular cars on the planet. Economics.

Oh, and tell Silber to STFU as he hasn't read anything I've posted in month, but can't shut up about what I am posting. Stalker wacko.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

The point is, you're bashing me for suggesting anyone spends any real money maintaining a 911, and the very next Ebay ad I see has a guy dropping almost $20k in 1 visit to the mechanic. Hey, it wasn't a rebuild so you're right about that...

It was 17k, not 20k -- no need to exaggerate.

]I'm not saying it's the norm

Sure you are.

....but you're posting bad advice saying these cars are cheaper to own than Corollas. I never saw a $17k mechanic bill for a Corolla.

There you go again with Corollas. Never once used the word. But you are probably better off financially buying a Corolla if you are going to take your (mythical) Porsche to a dealer/shop for simple things like oil changes, air/fuel filters, brakes, and valve adjustments.

It is simple.

Pick a $25+ new car of your choice, pick a $25+ 3.2 911.

Calculate 5 year new car depreciation costs against the average maintenance costs for a Porsche owner who does his own maintenance.

Never anywhere have I claimed it is inexpensive to own a Porsche -- especially if you pay someone else to maintain it. But you are going to lose $12-14k on a new Camry within 5 years just by owning it -- and that is not a possibility -- it is guaranteed. Can you afford to take that capital loss? Then you can probably afford a 911 -- if you wrench on it yourself. If not, pick a different car.

Simple argument. Stop distorting it, just accept that we agree on it.

I would think someone who keeps bringing up "economics" would understand the concept of depreciation.

I'm not bashing you personally -- I am simply stating the obvious that you are either intentionally distorting reality, or have difficulty following simple logical arguments.

Apart from buying a Corolla, my other advice to you is if you are in a hole, stop digging.

[COLB]

And if you are tired of people like Silbur laughing at you, quit picking fights and playing the fool. Again...very simple.

[MrBonus]

You can find $17,000 worth of maintenance on any old Porsche if you look hard enough. The problem is that a lot of parts, trim, and seals will last many more years without replacement and doing things like engine reseals over small/minor oil leaks can result in similar leaks forming in a matter of months.

[Matt Monson]

$17k vs $20k doesn't matter and I'm a jerk for calling bs on $5k vs $6k. 15-20% discrepancies clearly don't matter in PML's world.

[speeder]

I haven't followed the who PML saga and soap opera around here but I think that it's pretty clear the guy should not buy an older used car of any kind, much less a 911. They are just not for cost conscience, unmechanical types. Hell, they're not for cost conscience mechanical types.

[Matt Monson]

They are a luxury good. Even if one has the money it doesn't mean that it's a good item for everybody to own.

[pegasus9]

Luxury good to specialty dealers, The 3.2 is monumental in every way. And those that were fortunate enough to experience one, well... Cheers to the lucky few

[COLB]

You can find $17,000 worth of maintenance on any old Porsche if you look hard enough.

This is true of pretty much any classic car -- it is the difference between an excellent condition 2 or 3 "driver" and a true condition 1 concours car.

The increase in costs between good enough and perfect are geometric.

I love reading the BAT listings on the 1967 MGB with $40k in restoration costs -- for sale for $15k. If you want to spend it, there are things to spend it on. Often those costs have little effect on a car's reliability or "fun to drive" factor -- and only return pennies on the dollar in additional value.

[ASD]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

This will happen again, as it does for every boom and bust cycle.

Nothing doubles in 2 years without a major correction,
as nothing in the fundamentals has changed in 2 years.

Your car is probably worth $22k now.
It may be worth $12k again 2 years from now.

Tell me when Gibson Les Paul's will come down by 50% too.
Not gonna happen.

[ian c2]

About 18months after you buy a new one at guitar center

[cody818]

boy, sounds to me someone really hate their car (Porsche)

[COLB]

Originally Posted by cody818

boy, sounds to me someone really hate their car (Porsche)

That implies he owns one.

The poster in question is hating a car he has never owned or even driven, and is (theoretically) trying to determine whether a wants to buy one.

He has repeatedly come to the conclusion that they are too expensive (for him) to maintain -- and that the juice isn't worth the squeeze -- but that hasn't prevented him from continuing the saga.

[Matt Monson]

He contradicts himself constantly. A car that could potentially need a $5000 transmission rebuild and $10k engine rebuild isn't going to drop down to $15k or less when a good used gearbox is $2500-3000 and a used engine is $5000-6000. Add up all the trim and interior and sheet metal and you have a car a breaker can tear apart for well over $15k.

The sum of the parts will determine the bottom of the market on driver cars. And the parts have come way up in value in recent times.

[Stonestreet]

I'm on holiday, visiting my fiancé in Charleston. I have the time to respond.

I have to say, and this is from the perspective of a very recent (first time) owner, that I believe in terms of bang for the buck, you can't beat the 3.2 (or any $20-25k air cooled 911).

Given that it is a 25 year old car at best, it will have items throughout the full spectrum of repairs and to do's from the absolutely necessary (subjective) to the finishing touches like coco mats or a new shift knob. You can spend as much as you want to on any car, and a 911 is no different.

I think the main differences that come in to play are somewhat qualitative in nature, but translate to which camp one belongs in from a quantitative criteria.

What I mean is that an old 911 is incredibly fun to trouble shoot and tinker with. It is so much more rewarding to tweak than the proverbial Corolla . When you figure out what's wrong with the car, and get it sorted, you're back to motoring in what is perhaps the most enjoyable driving machine ever constructed. The bonus is that you are saving a bunch of money, putting you in what we can call the COLB-Monson camp. Why call it COLB-Monson? I dunno, it was in a text book referring to dudes that know their **** and offer solid advice for free. But I would say that this camp is the larger here on Pelican, which is why the costs of ownership reported here would be polar opposite for the most part to what was quoted in an ebay listing of a $17k repair bill.

If you look at old 911 ownership through a strictly financial/economical lens, you are only going to force yourself to have to understand something about chaos math and crystal balls, completely missing the point of ownership, and therefor having wasted every penny spent on the purchase, sorting, and maintenance. Having said that, there is no substitute for first hand experience. There is also a very comforting bit of knowledge in the fact that you can get out of ownership for at least less than the cost of renting an exotic for a weekend, and in more cases than not (lately) you can even make a couple dollars for your troubles. Again though, I should emphasize that looking at it strictly from the financial side of things is pointless.

[Matt Monson]

Corolla may not be the best example. They have a cult following, both the EA86 and earlier.
Toyota AE86 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One would need to set a year on the Corolla example or switch to the Camry. Personally I want a '76 Skyline to tinker with...

[Stonestreet]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Corolla may not be the best example. They have a cult following, both the EA86 and earlier.
Toyota AE86 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One would need to set a year on the Corolla example or switch to the Camry. Personally I want a '76 Skyline to tinker with...

That was my first car in gran turismo 4 and 5! Loved it! I had it on racing slicks, titanium exhaust, level 3 weight loss, Limited slip, the whole nine.

Good call Matt!