Anyone Else Find Rising 911 Values Discouraging?
 

I've been a Porsche guy for a long time (age 11ish). As an adult, one of the things I've loved most about the breadth of the 911 line is, for the most part, they've been "affordable". As a result, if you check my signature, I've had the pleasure of experiencing a lot of them. And I've bought and sold knowing (or thinking) that I could pick up something different if my current steed didn't meet my wishes…or I just wanted to try something else. I loved it.

But now prices are rising, and many "affordable" models are no longer even close to being so. I'm sad to say, short of winning the lottery, it looks like I'll never be able to afford another long hood (my favorite 911s). And it's not just the long hoods...Mohr Imports has a '74 911 for $67k. Yesterday I saw an original (but tired looking) Turbo Carrera advertised for $140k. Seriously?!? If this is the case, and the prices won't come down (even if it's a "bubble", the prices won't drop significantly ever again), then it looks like I've bought my last 911.

Because of that, I find looking at old 911s just discouraging now. I might as well be looking at a 918 Spyder. Don't get me wrong, I still love them and when I see and hear and smell them, my heart goes all aflutter. But the joy of ownership is diminished significantly (to me, anyway) by them being so damn expensive anymore. It's the first step to making them "investments" rather than very usable toys. I find this sad.

Certainly, my life has gone through some hardship recently that also affect (effect?) how I'm viewing…well, everything. But while my life is turning / will turn around, I'm not sure this feeling about 911s will. End of an era. A life long love affair.

Anywho…does anybody else feel the same? Or am I just off my rocker? (If I am…please be kind.) Would love your thoughts...

SmileWavy

If we love these cars, and we all do...then others will covet them too. The market responds to that demand.
I am holding on to mine for as long as I can, then one day I will buy something else. It may not stir my soul as much as this car does, but it will drive well and be fun.
I hope they continue to sell well and climb in value.

My passion is taking neglected or trashed or abandoned project 911s and making them great again.

And it's hard to see models of Porsches previously both loved and unloved at astronomical asking prices. Further, while parts prices have dropped, the labor costs have gone way up - favoring DIY ownership. But yes, I am having a hard time finding the silver lining in the current market (other than giving me a lot of leeway in the cars I'm "holding").

I believe you can feel sentimental, but it is what it is.

They never made that many of them from '64 to '77 - and even the midyears in these years were handmade so to speak.

Be glad you were able to enjoy the ride while you could, and have had many, many miles behind the wheel of one. High prices should not discourage you, as if you really look closely, the prices are still not that bad.

They were always expensive cars. Mine had a sticker price of more than $14K in 1975 - and that was shocking money for MOST people in 1975, except for many people in Southern California it seems. Now, $14K 40 years later might not get you much, but it might get you a midyear or maybe some tired SC IF you keep your eyes open, have the money ready, and are ready to move on it at a moments notice.

People kind of made fun of me 2 1/2 years ago when I bought a '75 for $4900 and a '74 for $5500 - and the '75 is a California car it's whole life with no rust whatsoever. It was what those cars were trading for with their awful track record and bumpers. It was what I could afford. Now those cars are going for twice that at least. I don't know if you can get one for $5K anymore.

There are cars out there. Always will be. Don't be shocked by some of the asking prices as there are MANY, MANY more people in the game now, not to mention entire world economies, much larger populations, and on top of this, a tremendous amount of people who desire an aircooled 911 in any form.

Hobbies change, so do peoples' tastes. Who knows what may happen in the future. Maybe now is the time to get into vintage German motorcycles...

I was the kid of a car guy
dad was a owner-user/flipper who owned many 356's jags, and fascels
most cars he kept 6 months to a year and sold on at a small gain + free use

I tryed to do the same but post the insane price bubbles in mussel cars
and now most good sports cars too
I am priced out of the driver market of interesting older cars by the damm collectors

It is discouraging for me. 20 years ago I had a '69 911e that was picked up for $4K. I loved that car as a poor college student couldn't afford the motor work that was needed at the time and sold it to buy a pristine 1971 2002.

For years I played with other cars (mostly BMWs, Alfas, Volvos) but always thought about buying another early 911. Three years ago I made up my mind to find another longhood, but had basically missed the boat (for a decent sub $25K car). I found a really nice '69E for $30K and passed on it. 6 months later I realized that I should jump on it and called the owner back. It was then a $50K car. I again passed, and well... we all know how prices have gone since 2012.

Personally I couldn't give a crap about how collectible my car is. I'd just like to have a nice, honest, simple, classically-designed machine that is fun to drive. The range of potential candidates across multiple brands has seen significant increases in values as well. Look at the pricing for classic Alfas, BMWs, Volvos, etc. They've all gone up!

Oh well, sorry for the *****ing. Now get off my lawn!!! ;)

2cam

I got in just in time. I would be VERY discouraged right now with the market if I were trying to get in.

I think this is the core of my problem. I feel like the "collectors" have taken the fun away from the "enthusiasts"…all for the sake of "collecting". Yet another case of the extremely wealthy keeping the everyman down... :p

I went through this with muscle cars. I was fine buying them as projects when you get them for less than $10k but would never spend $40k+ for a finished one.

Isn't that the case with everything? The enthusiasts make it cool, then the wealthy want to buy in to cool, which ruins it.

I'm so lucky I bought my car when I did (2004). I paid $10500 for it, which shocks me now. No way I could afford to get into an early 911 if I were looking these days.

I feel the same way. Even though I bought my '88 Carrera 5 years ago, which I plan on keeping forever. So theoretically, I should like the rising prices. But I don't.

911s have always been relatively expensive when new, but in their entire history have been awesome used enthusiast cars. They are built to be driven, worked on and enjoyed.

The 911 was my dream car when I was 16, was my first car when I was finally out of schooling and working at 25, and I've owned at least one continuously for almost 25 years now. As a sports car, and overall, it is in my book undoubtedly the greatest car ever made.

That being said, the current prices are ridiculous.

I'm hoping the bubble pops. I do think it's a bubble, because in every asset that I've ever seen, when valuations double and triple all of a sudden, they always come back down. It doesn't seem possible that used 911s were so grossly undervalued for 40 years, that this sudden "correction" has brought them to the right price. I also think over the long term, the production numbers and long term demand won't support these crazy prices. I think a lot of people buying now are speculators, not enthusiasts. Speculators eventually go away.

It has sucked the fun out of it. While I have mine now, if prices were still "normal" I would probably pick up a project to tinker with/work on/have fun with.

I feel the same way.

If I listened to the "boss" at home to wait a few more years before looking for the right "air-cooled" 911, it would have exceeded my budget.

My search probably would have changed to a pre 68 VW Beetle, Boxster or 944.

Yeah, I had to fish around a bit for them, but finally I found my testicles in her purse and used my "hey, since when do you get last word on the stuff I buy?" man-voice. Sure, it cost me, but I don't regret a minute of the time I spent on the couch.

YUP.

I miss the days when you could fire up craiglist and find several nice air cooled 911's for $8-15k at any given time. Now, if you can still afford one, you have to beat the hoard of buyers to a car when it comes up for sale.

Guess I saw this coming when I noticed most of our 911's were being shipped to Europe by the boatload a few years ago. Even the 'lesser' models (928, 914, etc) are being snatched up by overseas buyers now. Can't speak for the coasts but here in the midwest these cars are disappearing from our roads. I know, they're classics now, but seriously I saw three air cooled 911's driving this summer. I used to see that many per week.

It's not just Porsche. I was hoping to own a Boxer in the next few years, that definitely won't be happening now. Doesn't even look like the Testarossa will be affordable much longer.

I can relate to the long-hoods and the discouraging feeling of "I need to reinvent sliced bread" to afford one when I take a look.

But, with the increasing value of the 911, I have learned 2 things.

-Be appreciative for the things that you have, as many other people wish they could have said object.

-It has taught me a new kind of mechanical patience, that I'd never even considered before. I will go to great lengths to remove a bolt/part properly Whereas previously, I would destroy it and whatever connected to simply replace with another middle of the road piece.

I recently watched a MotorTrend YouTube on a '68 911L and a '67 427 Vette. There were some 400 911Ls produced to an almost 10x figure of 37xx 427 vettes (crazy numbers considering how people oogle over the "rare" 427 vette)

As an owner of a 911, you are the steward of history, enjoy your journey.

I do believe some of the recent asking prices have gone "silly" and lots of cars (930's, longhoods) just sit unsold.
I wouldn't blame the true fans, enthusiasts and collectors alike, of the brand for this
but the dealers and flippers, on the other hand, are really getting into the speculative game.

On a long term perspective however, imo the values of the 911 have always been stable, it's your $$$ which has been devalued.
Here's a data point ... in 1980, a Honda Accord was $6k new, a 2014 model is close to $30K and this is for a throw away at the end of use
driving appliance.
In comparison to this, the 911 is undervalued given it's a classic 911 !!!

Interesting to read the pricing comments here about my '72 hot rod:

BaT Exclusive: Sinister Sibling 1972 Porsche 911T 3.2 Hot Rod | Bring a Trailer

"Hearing aid tan" LOL.

Practically fell out of my chair with that one. Hey, color is subjective.

But this is the color it was when I bought it:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409859341.jpg

It's not the original paint :(

Completely agree with you Doug. I will occasionally look here at the 'cars for sale' posts. I stopped clicking on the early 911s a couple of years ago - what's the point?

Add this to the fact that there isn't such a thing even closely resembling a 911 coming from Porsche anymore, and we should all just thank our lucky stars we're driving a legend.

Sorry if I've mentioned this before - I think it's time for Porsche to retire the 911. At least the name. Other than having a flat six in the back the 991 is a completely different car. They don't currently build anything that I'm interested in.

When you think about it pretty much all new cars in the past 15 years are horrible and even the ones that aren't (996 and 997 etc) will be virtually obsolete and worth very little in 10 years due to parts costs IMHO. You can buy an air cooled 911 and hand it down to your kids and it will still be drivable which means a lot. In some ways it justifies todays high prices as the long term ownership cost is still cheap. A new 991 will loose 50k in 4 or 5 years. As to 1974-98 911's I still think they are a bargain.

I like the new cars. That said, were I to win that previously mentioned lottery, I wouldn't buy a 911, I'd buy a Cayman S and maybe a Cayenne Diesel (no, really) and spend the rest on older Porsches and an EV or two. I owned a 2006 Cayman S for a spell…best Porsche ever. I was stupid to sell it.

As for what a 991 values will be like in 50 years…consider that the internal combustion engine probably won't be around then. (The limited supply of gas will be $20 a gallon.) So they'll still be rare or they'll be converted to electric or other...

My Model S is not horrible. It's a lot of fun. Cars should not be given to children unless they truly know what they are getting and love cars. Cars should be enjoyed. What's tragic now is that the air-cooled turbos are becoming too precious to put a lot of miles on. They also require a bit more care than newer cars (as they should). I've always lost money in the cars I've purchased--mainly due to depreciation. Let's just worry less about money and enjoy our cars. Lately, most of our posts are less about driving pleasure and more about investment strategy. I hope the Porsche marketplace levels off so we can all go back to enjoying our wonderful machines.

So you finally found a use for that electron microscope you're always bragging about!

Anyone Else Find Rising 911 Values Discouraging?
Yes, we were spoiled for so long with cheap, easy to buy and plentiful 911's that when it's over it hurts. But at least we had the chance, can not say that for a lot of people today with 911 desire, they have never known rust free 1970 911S for used Toyota MR2 money and to think that was only 10 short years ago.

Wow, this is a timely thread for me. I've been seriously thinking about selling my 72. I almost divorced myself from it, then I'll pick up a magazine and see an early car and the doubt kicks in. I know once I sell this car, my days of early 911 ownership are over forever. I'm not sure how I feel about that.....I'm in the same boat with my Ducati, I enjoy it, but I would never spend the money it would take to buy another one. I don't NEED the money, but with both the car and bike, I could buy some other things I would probably get more use from......

If you decide to sell, the timing is good financially. But my advice is to keep it.

To paraphrase a famous saying from the 60s (Fabulous Furry Freak Bros.):

'Porsches get you through times of no money better than money gets you through times with no Porsches.'

Yes, same here but the opposite :)

I have the money, still, but I can't justify buying a longhood just as a garage ornament.

Then don't, buy it as a fun car to drive.

Doug,
Buy a 2.0l 914 while the prices are still reasonable. You can get a nice little driver in the $5-10K range. Not 911 fast, but then you had a 912E. You know what kind of joy an be had on a light car that handles well. It will pay for itself in smiles.

I won't ever stop driving my cars. But I did grab that '67 912 in my signature because I saw myself getting priced out of the longhood market and regretted selling my previous couple of cars.

They may not build anything that you're interested in, and I certainly understand why a purist views a chasm between the current offerings and the "911" name. But to suggest that they would/should "retire" the name is pretty laughable, at least as much as suggesting that Coke should retire its brand or Chevy should abandon the "Corvette" name.

I've always wanted to own a 914, but as I've gotten older and a little more concerned about my mortality, they kinda turn me off. I've seen too many pictures of 914s folded in half from otherwise survivable accidents. FWIW I have the same concerns of 911 Targas. I know old Porsches aren't the safest cars in the world anyway, but it's pretty ridiculous when you look at how little metal is between the front and back ends of any old Targa topped Porsche. Give me a roof, please...

If my employment situation turns around soon, I may try to get a longhood 912 if they're still "affordable". If not, the '86 goes into backdate. :)

Maybe I am crazy but it makes me happy to see the values rise on these great cars. I have no plans on ever selling mine I hope to leave it to my son one day but knowing that I have a great car that is increasing in value every year is nothing to get discouraged about. imagine having a 401K that you can drive and enjoy what's so bad about that?

Can you imagine having this guy's problem?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/827686-building-917-engine-help.html

As long as you don't wreck it! :eek: :p Seriously…has everybody updated their agreed value insurance lately?

You make a good point…and I did see another thread (referring to 911s as "dead man's cars"…i.e. you don't sell them until you're dead) that made me think my 911 just might help me enjoy retirement…first as a driver and then as an investment once I'm no longer able to drive it.

I would expect insurance, maintenance costs and part prices etc to increase as well alongside rising values. So, just because one already has them doesn't mean you are insulated from 911 inflation.

I do not quite understand your frustration with the current market. I regularly see SC Targa's available for under 20k and think they are a bargain in today's market. My suggestion would be to go look at and drive as many of these cars as possible and I suspect your perspective may change. I picked up this one a (77) about 14 months ago for 10k as a go anywhere no worries fun car. The market has changed a bit in the last year but you can still find nice drivers for reasonable prices.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps563f2c9d.jpg