Are 930's really selling for this much?

[bpu699]

Haggerty has 930 prices sky rocketing. Wonderful! A 1986 condition 2 is 80-85k? A condition 3 $60k?

I love seeing those numbers... especially since I own an 1988 .

But the asking prices on this board seem way lower than that.

Are our cars really worth that and selling for those numbers? Or, is that an auction only price.

When I tell my wife what the car is now worth, she just kindly rolls her eyes, and says "sure it is... Love you honey..."

Based on those numbers, whats a half-beaten-to-death car now worth? Its 30K plus according to Haggerty. Whats a shell worth? Should we be hoarding 930 parts?


Anyone here really sell for that, or buy it for that?

Bo

[ficke]

Yes they are selling.
I think the disconnect in price understanding is in identifying the #1 ,2,3 that Hagerty uses.
In simple terms a #1 car is new or restored car that is indistinguishable from a new car.
I have never seen a #1 car.
A #2 car would look like a well taking care of new car with low miles on it.
I have only seen a few of these and they sell for Hagerty numbers for #2 cars, There is a few listed on the 'Notable sells thread'
#3 car Might have an aftermarket stereo or steering wheel and most people think it is perfect.
This is a local show car winner.
#4 car is what I see at car shows, most of us have #4 cars that we drive regularly with a few tasteful mods. and decent but not perfect paint or interior. I have never seen better than a #4 car on a club drive or tour.
#5 cars is the one that is getting repaired and worked on in someones garage but there is enough parts to make a complete car.
The Hagerty price guide makes more sense if honest appraisals of cars are used.

[bpu699]

Might be...

When I watch the Haggerty TV show "What's My Car Worth?", they aren't that critical. Seems like most daily drivers are usually a 3+ or better.

A 4 would be a complete restoration candidate. And a 5 is a burned out shell.

[ficke]

No "might be" this is Hagerty description from their site
"#4 cars are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the fender has a minor dent. The interior could have split seams or a cracked dash. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or the interior might not be stock. A #4 car can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 car."

[pu911]

I don't follow the later 930 prices but the haggerty values for a true #1 76-79 are much higher than what they list. A truely excellent, completely original, completed documented no stories low miles 78-79 930 will sell for $250-300k. The top prices are really pretty irrelevant as they apply to so few cars. I think the rest of the haggerty prices for 930's are pretty accurate- keep in mind these are past sales, in a really fast moving market they can still be low or high depending on what may market is trending.
Phil

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by ficke

No "might be" this is Hagerty description from their site
"#4 cars are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the fender has a minor dent. The interior could have split seams or a cracked dash. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or the interior might not be stock. A #4 car can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 car."

If most every car on this board is a #4 car then the price guides don't make sense either. #4 cars have been selling, according to haggerty, for $20,000 for the prior 10 years. Most of the "drivers" I have seen sell on here have seemingly gone for $30,000 to $40,000 over the years. Matches the trend of a #3 or better car. I haven't seen a $20,000 930 to my recollection... Short of a shell...

[ficke]

Most market tracking is always playing catch up with the actual market.
So Hagerty and the rest or at best a lagging indicator.
The 1 and 2 cars are going for more than the Hagerty chart indicates Like Phil pointed out and the #4 cars are going for more than Hagerty chart indicates like you pointed out, Hagerty is a lagging index to actual market.

[shlobeck]

The answer to the question is YES.. No matter how you explain condition of cars or comps of previous sales, these cars are appreciating rapidly and tantamount to many other vintage air-cooled p-cars. The difference is smaller sample sizes and few cars for sale. For example, very few '76-'77 cars, let alone in condition #1 or #2 are for sale at any given time. Personally I've never seen an original condition #1 turbo Carrera for sale. The last "open" market car ('76 euro) sold for $140k and that was a condition #3 car. Again the answer is yes. Up your insurance and keep drivin it!

[jwasbury]

I have a '79 930. Agree that Hagerty values need to be applied with realistic grading on the condition scale. That's a very subjective determination of course. I view my car as a solid condition 3. I have no delusions it's a 2 or 1 and it probably has too many miles to ever be. Based on his post, Ficke would probably say my car is a 4 right now, and maybe a 3 after paint work. Primary visible flaw is the paint is sand blasted up front because I drive the damn thing. Easy to fix, but I prefer to keep it with driver patina while I own it. If I were to list, I would have paint work done first and I have no doubt that I'd recoup that cost.

I believe that the 930 "deserves" to appreciate in value (and not just because I own one), but other than the 3 liter models, I don't think I have seen anybody on the 930 forum cashing in on this supposedly hot market. I've gotten a few random PMs inquiring about my car over the last year, which never happened before...no one has offered me their late model GT3 as a trade either

[tony101]

So what in you view would a 2 owner, restored 1976 3.0 turbo be worth? California car.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by tony101

So what in you view would a 2 owner, restored 1976 3.0 turbo be worth? California car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/777746-notable-recent-sales.html
Check out this thread and try to honestly compare your car to ones that have sold.
Realize that asking and selling are different.

[pu911]

Originally Posted by tony101

So what in you view would a 2 owner, restored 1976 3.0 turbo be worth? California car.

Really comes down to the quality of the restoration, the color of a car etc. Figure that a top drawer resto is going to set you back $100-150k, maybe more. An excellent original car will still be worth more. At the end of the day there is really no good source to determine the value of these cars if they are at the high end of market. I think all you can do is list them for sale and see if anyone shows up with a large checkbook. If you don't want to sell valuation is only relevant for insurance purposes. Figure that a driver 76 930 that needed paint just sold for $140k in a very short period of time, that give you some sense of strength of market.

Phil

[COLB]

Number ratings are very subjective, and vary dramatically by age and originality.

A 1950s car that is almost entirely original -- especially paint and interior -- may be considered a #2 car, while a restored car in the same condition would be a #3 or 4. Original patina does not detract the same way as wear on a restoration.

More wear is tolerated on a 70 year old car than a 25 year old car.

A lot of cars made up through the 1970s had factory fit & finish issues that -- when new -- would keep a fully restored model from being a #1 at Pebble.

[iluv911]

try and stay with earlier versions 76-79 as they are most desirable and will be fastest to go up in value

[rdwinelover]

Hagerty should be out before the end of this coming week. By the speed of sales, lack of inventory and multiple six figure prices being transacted at, the chart will continue to go parabolic. Often this early momentum will look like a tiny blip in 10 years time (or at least that what my 12 years as a NASDAQ trader for Merrill Lynch taught me).

A friend who knows Magnus said, he believes the early 930's 1975 & 1976 & 1977 are going the way of RS in demand and pricing. With only 1,417 cars which were hand made in 1975 & 1976, I am wagering my money in cars that he is spot on. Even if he is wrong, there is no other car I would rather drive!

[NYNick]

Try to buy any nice, very clean, well documented and well taken care of 911 these days. The prices are just crazy, and 930's and 993TT's are just crazier than that.

The cat has been out of the bag for quite some time now. The Hagerty value guides are just that; guides. Put just about any 911 on the market these days, and you'll be swamped with buyers. Just make sure you're committed to selling and/or buying. There will be no shortage of ready, willing and able buyers.

Nick