Incomparably Well Built, World Class Sportscars

[Il Monstro]

Mentioning to a 911 driving/loving/true-believing friend that the a/c on these cars rarely if ever works, he came back with this:

Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe 2 Door | eBay
The AC system has also been upgraded to a R134 system that blows very cold.

I responded thusly:

For $35k or so it would be nice for all the features to work.

Can I express, as a fellow auto enthusiast, that I have never encountered a more OVER valued car than these GLP's?? You have truly opened my eyes. When you first told me you bought one and mentioned what you paid, I CRINGED. After some brief research, I discovered that you actually GOT A GREAT DEAL. So I shut my mouth.

Can you guys think of another comparable, utterly insane price vs. value correlation? I don't think you can compare these to say, a 50 year old collector car (convertible Caddy, 60's Jaguar roadster, hand built Dusenberg, etc) because that's a whole different valuation system. These 911's seem to be becoming "collectible", sure, but no more than the Pontiac Fiero. The discussion boards seem to justify the outrageous prices not because of rarity or collectibility, but because THEY ARE SUCH INCOMPARABLY WELL BUILT, WORLD CLASS SPORTSCARS.

Offhand, I cannot think of another car that mirrors the thoroughly illogical way these are valued. How in the name of capitalism did such a fair-to-middling footnote, a relatively technologically uninspired and significantly flawed 80's "sportscar" become so mind-boggingly VALUABLE????

1987 Porsche 911 | Hagerty

[brianvb]

Ya, and they rust, and the engines leak, and I still love em.

[ficke]

Any vinyl seat covered, stamp steel wheel, high production muscle car.

[Nachtfalter]

Don't buy one.

[brisboats]

HMMM a decent Delorean brings G 50 dollars with 140 horsepower and a build quality and acceleration to match. 1980's 911 was the affordable exotic you could drive everyday. The direct competition , the Mercedes SL, the corvette, BMW 635csi and Lotus Espirit were trounced then and now in the build quality driving experience and retention of value. Sounds like an enthusiast wishes he had one and is jealous of those that do. Even at current prices there are plenty of buyers that recognize the value and the supply of these hand built cars is limited.
The higher priced exotics from the 80's like Ferrari and Lambo have down as well or better than Porsche in terms of values. But how many of them can log 200K plus miles on the odometer and still command a decent price? They are garaged and treated like a fine wine to be sipped on special occasions and converse around while perusing your buddy's garage. A 911 is meant to be enjoyed regularly you can guzzle its charms and laugh all the way... stop crying and start laughing Mr. Enthusiast and buy a 911 or Fiero if that suits you.
B

[brisboats]

Oh yes and one utterly insane observation Mr. Enthuisiast which really brings your silly reasoning to a grinding halt. The 911 is now officially a 50 year old collector car please name me another. Since it surpasses the Dusenberg and 60's Jag with one model and shape for 5 decades I don't think you can fairly place those medieval designs in a separate higher class by themselves. Dusies have been on a steady decline in value as the pre war market is shrinking. Had those designs been as timeless and followed a form follows function philosophy like Porsche who knows they too may still be around. Heck Jag has even tried to reintro an XK look as the 60's -XKE was a very sexy car they should have kept developing. But lets face it a 60's Jag doesn't bring current 60's 911S money right now does it? That may just be the root of all this.
B

[77Targa0912]

Early E-Types are fetching north of $200,000 now.

[brisboats]

Conceptcarz 2015 auction data average Jaguar E type 1967 $79867 average sales price of 1967 911S $117,707. Get off the more desireable Series I E types and go forward into the 1970's when they came out with the less coveted V-12 and the values decline sharply while the 911 values hold pretty strong right to the last of the longhoods 1973. Don't get me wrong I would love to own an early E type and as Enzo Ferrari himself said It is the most beautiful car.
Back to the OP point though which to me is a stab at current Porsche collectability and values and specifically targets the 1980's 911 as inappropriately priced to the "real" value. He asks for one example of such an absurdity and I once again offer up the Delorean.
I am curious what the OP drives.

B

[RacerX1166]

PML Lives On!

[dienstuhr]

[Matt Monson]

Lots of bitter monkeys coming out of the woodwork. My advice is oh buy a 1987 VW Sirocco.

[JordanPryce]

I remember those 87-88 16V GTI's and Siroccos fondly from my youth!

[christiandk]

A nice Scirocco doesnt come cheap...

Volkswagen Scirocco I 1.Hd. 76 tkm alles original Chrom als Sportwagen/Coupé in Hamburg

[NYNick]

I loved my Scirocco. Wish I had that bad boy around to thrash today!

[Matt Monson]

I love the Sirocco. But I just think one may be better suited to the OP. Here's a bunch to pick from:
Scirocco | Buy Classic Volks

[Yorkie]

Originally Posted by 77Targa0912

Early E-Types are fetching north of $200,000 now.

I just sold my really nice '61 Flat Floor Roadster for half of that. To fetch the big money early E-Types need to not only be numbers matching but super original and perfectly restored. Though mine was truly beautiful it was not numbers matching (had a '62 block) some non-original parts (Wilwood Calipers, Al radiator, etc) and 5000 miles on the nut and bolt restoration. The guys that can afford the upper end of the market can pick and choose what they want.

As much as I loved looking at it the Moss box was awful, at 6ft tall I had to look over the screen to drive it and getting in an out was not easy. But when you fire up that six cylinder it sounded like a RR Merlin and you just felt really special driving it. Not sure why I sold it now...

[2cam]

If someone is looking at this purely from a performance/value perspective, there probably isn't a better deal in the market today than the C4 (AFTER the initial year of introduction) Corvette.

A year after they were introduced, they had performance comparable to the 3.2 Carrera and continued to improve each year of the run until their last year in 1996. Yeah, it's a Chevy and the build quality kinda sucks (especially the interiors), but these are competent, iconic cars that have a significant race history (they dominated their class in SCCA Showroom Stock from 84-87 until they were outlawed in '88 and shattered the 24 hour speed record in 1990).

If you can get past the cheesy-ness, you can buy a low-mileage, immaculate, well-maintained C4 for 1/3 to 1/4 the price of a comparable 3.2, 964, or 993. Are they going to increase in value like the 911s? It's doubtful, but who would have guessed that mid-years, 964s, or 914s would bring the prices that they are?

2cam

[77Targa0912]

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<div style="font-style:italic">Early E-Types are fetching north of $200,000 now.</div>
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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->I just sold my really nice '61 Flat Floor Roadster for half of that. To fetch the big money early E-Types need to not only be numbers matching but super original and perfectly restored. Though mine was truly beautiful it was not numbers matching (had a '62 block) some non-original parts (Wilwood Calipers, Al radiator, etc) and 5000 miles on the nut and bolt restoration. The guys that can afford the upper end of the market can pick and choose what they want. <br>
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As much as I loved looking at it the Moss box was awful, at 6ft tall I had to look over the screen to drive it and getting in an out was not easy. But when you fire up that six cylinder it sounded like a RR Merlin and you just felt really special driving it. Not sure why I sold it now... <img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/July+20131424457047.jpg" border="0" alt="">

Nice car. You are right they need to be correct down to every last detail, but when they are they sell for that much. Lite restomods like yours that improve the driving experience unfortunately take a major hit on value.

I've sat in many E-Types and at 5'11 I was looking at the top of the Chrome windscreen strip. The same goes for my chrome bumper MGB. The two cars I've owned that I fit like a glove in are a Europa S2 and my current '77 911 with factory Recaros. 6' and 180lbs is About as big as you can be in most European sports cars. I cringe when I see people larger in height or weight try to fit in these cars.

That's why there are Corvettes!

[dienstuhr]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I love the Sirocco. But I just think one may be better suited to the OP. Here's a bunch to pick from:
Scirocco | Buy Classic Volks

Personally I prefer the MKI Scirocco. I'd love to have a nice clean MKI in the garage. I did once own a '75 (first year) but it was an automatic and pretty beat when I bought it. Paid $150 for it!

Cheers

d.

[pors1968]

My next built would be ghia coupe with 912 engine .