912. In genera. Discuss.

[r-mm]

Anyone have a bead on the 912 market in general? I've owned non-Porsche cars from the era and realize rust is king as far as individual cars go. My instinct from the Alfa world is that condition, history and colors are more important than model variations but maybe I'm wrong. Are these early 3 gauge cars far and away more valuable than the later ones? I'm not really interested in Targas but have a feeling the soft window cars are a hot ticket as well?

[CountD]

Problem is I believe the 912 has been the dark horse brother of 911s for too long. They were always the bottom feeder car that people bought instead of a 911, because they were half the price.

Truth is they are amazing cars, handle just as well, are all-Porsche, and give you that feeling. But to me they are a different animal.

From recent auction results people don't seem to care that it has a four under the rear deck (maybe people are smartening up and realizing that the four is just as legit as a Porsche motor as there ever was). $82K for a 1967 proves this at Scottsdale. But this is an awesome example. It would cost the same money to restore one as a longhood 911. Maybe more if you wanted all the correct pieces.

I always though early 5-guage 912s were more sought-after and desirable. I drove a '67 a couple times. It was my bosses and it was the first 912 I ever drove. It was (and I think still is) mint. He brought his daughter home from the hospital in it in '68. I hope he still has it - I am sure he does. He never drove it. I think I drove it more around the parking lot.

I used to toy with the idea that a 912 would take the place of a 911 in my life. I could have gotten some sweet deals 5 years ago. I never bought them. In hindsight I wish I did as do most people. A women had a '66 down the road from me in SoCal and she sold it for $5K. It took weeks to sell. In some ways they are a pure descendant of a true Porsche. If you know of some 912s I would buy them without hesitation.

I am very interested to see where drola's spectacular Porsche 912 find goes. Karmann #1 - it is a perfectly legit piece of history. But the excitement is not being generated as lets say an old '64 911 that was hidden under hideous bodywork. Time will tell.

[r-mm]

I'd be willing to pony up for a really nice 912 but its hard for me to know what is strong current market money (ie 30-40k for a very pretty driver G50) and what is silly money (ie 50-70 for the same car, or 30-40 for one with needs).

Is the price of 912 backstopped by that of the condition equivalent 911T? It would seem that all things being equal the vast majority (not all, but enough to influence the market) would go for the 911.

This car at $45k? TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1968 Porsche 912 Coupe - Golden Green !!
This one at $62k? 1969 Porsche 912 Coupe for sale | Hemmings Motor News

[NYNick]

Owned 2 in my day. Loved the cars, but they were clearly bought because the 911's were too expensive for me at the time. Of course, I lusted after the 911's, which is actually WHY I bought the 912's. I knew what the Count said was true, so for that I give myself credit. But I still wanted a 911 more.

I find it difficult to swallow the reality of the prices these cars a drawing these days. It's not that I regret selling mine; hell, one of the best days of my life was watching one of those 912 rust buckets go down my driveway for the last time. It's just that I always considered the 911 to be a better car...period, end of story.

Some people are saying in other threads they can't justify the prices of the current batch of SC's and 3.2's, in their heads or in the marketplace. I don't agree with them regarding those 911's, but for the life of me, I feel the same way about the 912.

Good cars, solid drivers, but not for me at the current price point, especially when you can get a nice air cooled 911 (or maybe even two?) for the same amount of dough.

[techweenie]

I have seen 912s bringing $60/70K.

I know they have advocates. I am not one. My first Porsche was a 912 - mainly because I feared the complexity of the 911 engine at that time. 50+ 911s later, I haven't looked back once.

[Matt Monson]

At the time I paid 70-71 911t money for my '67 912. And I would do it again. I wanted a SWB car.

The current rise in 912 values is not enthusiast based. It is collector driven. If I didn't own a Carrera I don't know that I would have settled for a 12. But as an other Porsche it is perfect for me.

[r-mm]

I realize everything that looks at all like a 1965-1998 911 is experiencing some degree of speculative driven investment and I'm not trying to participate/profit from that - I got curious about the 912 when I did the mental exercise of evaluating it based on its merits alone. A drop dead beautiful, pure, well made sports car that came in great colors, is well supported by the aftermarket and has a still very sporty (ie - not british tractor) motor even though its tempting to compare it to the six.

I know more about Alfa than Porsche. Compare 912 to the 'stepnose' Giulia Sprint GT - the 912's equal in looks, displacement, sophistication, beauty of interior etc. There is relatively little froth in the Alfa market. The same forces that are effecting every old car still apply, but there is not a feeding frenzy. The Alfa sells for 40-60k (more for #1 at auction but let's leave that out) easily based on their merits. Therefore why isn't the 912 worth the same?

And BTW if you're selling one, holler at me.

[Jcslocum]

I happen to own 1 and some 911's. It's a different car altho 99% of the parts are the same. SWB with a small light engine in the back. Make the right noises, looks killer and drives well. What's not to like?

Prices are shooting up as they should on 45-50 year old cars. Mine is a 66 with 42K miles.

[Matt Monson]

The 911 is what made Porsche famous. Many people consider the 356/912 engine a VW engine, which isn't really true.

But perception is changing. For decades a 912 was 50-60% of the price of a 911. That's tightening up quite a bit. I don't think they will ever be equal. But a lot of people appreciate a 912 for what it is.

[r-mm]

Are 5sp/4sp and SWB/LWB big price and desirability differentiators?

I'm presuming the 5sp was available as an option on any year 912 but 4sp was standard? 4 speeds still enjoyable but nice to have the extra gear? Does one or the other shift better / last longer?

[Nick Triesch]

I owned a 1963 356B for 10 years. I loved that car. But it was a dog. I bought it years ago because I could not afford a 911. The 912 is wonderful. But it is also a dog. 75 H.P. That is it. 911, 207 H.P.

[BK911]

How much HP is needed to go the speed limit? 100hp in the 912 is plenty to cruise slightly above legal and have a blast. 200hp is overkill except on the track. IMHO of course. I don't need speed to have fun.

[johnvan8]

912: 75 hp
911: 207 hp
Really? What year/vintage are you comparing here?
If that's the logic then I guess my Honda Odyssey at 240 hp trumps them all then.

[porschophile]

This sums the 912 up well for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNfmcIHpsH8

[christiandk]

Dont forget about the high tech 912E - Great balance and tons of power! Plus women and children love it!

[pnut_lee]

Originally Posted by johnvan8

912: 75 hp
911: 207 hp
Really? What year/vintage are you comparing here?
If that's the logic then I guess my Honda Odyssey at 240 hp trumps them all then.

Yeah, someone has their facts confused. Lets compare apples to apples.

1969 Porsche 912 = 102 hp
1969 Porsche 911T = 125 hp

912 is a fantastic car sharing deep Porsche heritage with both the 356 and early 911 cars. I can't afford a longhood 911 these days, so I have a 912 and happily so.

[iluv911]

The 912 is a better handling car! feels alot more nimble and lighter through the turns. For 1/2 the price get the same fun factor!

[iluv911]

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by BK911

How much HP is needed to go the speed limit? 100hp in the 912 is plenty to cruise slightly above legal and have a blast. 200hp is overkill except on the track. IMHO of course. I don't need speed to have fun.

Really? Try going up a long steep hill at 60MPH.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by BK911

How much HP is needed to go the speed limit? 100hp in the 912 is plenty to cruise slightly above legal and have a blast. 200hp is overkill except on the track. IMHO of course. I don't need speed to have fun.

Originally Posted by iluv911

The 912 is a better handling car! feels alot more nimble and lighter through the turns. For 1/2 the price get the same fun factor!

1/2 the price? Find me one and I'll buy it.