Sellers taking liberties with their listings

[trader220]

Porsche 911 Carrera | eBay


Amazing only 6% loss when dyno'd from crank to rear wheels! Thats got to be a record dont you think?

[Matt Monson]

I'll bite.
Jeff Gamroth engine dynos every engine that comes out of his facility. I'll bet seller has proof of chp claim.

There are a lot of brands of dynos. Mustangs are known for being generous and again I bet there is a dyno sheet.

Lastly there is the gearbox. While we have never done this test with 915 gears, we have using later gears. We took a stock gearbox and dyno'd the car. Then we installed a gearbox with our gears in it. Same ratios. Same gear. 3rd gear pulls. My gears gave 4whp over stock due to less driveline loss. The car in this ad has my 915 gears in it.

[techweenie]

Actually sounds very good to me.

Except that I usually don't see sellers brag that they have 15 inches.... of documentation.

[trader220]

6% loss from the crank to the rear wheels is about 1/2 of what I have normally seen. Thats a pretty efficient gear box.

[Matt Monson]

For a 911 I usually assume 10-12%.

There are other possible explanations. A high performance engine will often increase in power once full broken in. So an engine that left Portland at 227 may be 240 several months later after it is run in all the way.

Plus we need to see the dyno sheet for whp. Not just brand of dyno matters. An operator influences the end number. I would want to know his SAE correction factor. If he was generous with correction he could bump whp by several percent.

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Actually sounds very good to me.

Except that I usually don't see sellers brag that they have 15 inches.... of documentation.

He'd have something to brag about if he had documentation of 15 inches.

[trader220]

They're asking a buck thrity on their website......... Hard to say what the car really is since its not an all original Carrera. I am guessing they want the moon for it based on all the numbers for real carrers they were throwing around.

On their website they say 227 at the rear wheels, on the eBay listing its 227 at the crank.



Nice looking car.

[Arne2]

If Jeff built the motor, I'll believe the crank number, and don't care about whp at all.

[Matt Monson]

They've got $35-40k in the engine and gearbox. Could have bought a nice all original 100k mi '75 Carrera for that 2 years ago.

I'm guessing reserve around $80-85k.

[Matt Monson]

Whoa! Posted while you edited. $130k. Pass me the crack pile please.

[trader220]

Believe me I am not doubting the bhp numbers. My thought was 6% from crank to wheels is not real... Then reading merrygoround of numbers from eBay to their own sight casts more doubt that they even dyno'd at all from the wheels.

Its a great looking car. I love green and I have owned a number of green 911's over the decades. At 130k its not going to be in my garage anytime soon. Its not worth that much to me.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

He'd have something to brag about if he had documentation of 15 inches.

Christian sez he will settle for no less!!!

[whiterabbit]

The is a really nice car. It also comes with the original engine as well. If I had money to spare and wanted a car to own forever this may be the one.

[trader220]

There is no denying it’s a very nice car but despite coming with the original engine its not a factory Carrera anymore. Lose the black stripe with the accents it would look even better IMO. Most of the pictures have clearly been photoshopped to highlight the car, but I am sure it still looks fantastic in person.

You could find a straight SC and drop a rebuilt 3.6 and 915 into it, do the suspension and brakes, re-spray and do the interior. You'd have a better performing car and save a lot of dough.

Clean straight SC coupe high miles ...... $25k
Fresh 3.6 with conversion..................... $25k
Fresh 915 with goodies ....................... $6k
Suspension Overhaul ........................... $6k
High End Paint Job ............................... $10k
High end Interior Job ........................... $8k
Misc.............................................. ........ $5k

Total............................................. ........ $85k

I think those numbers are pretty liberal and I am sure you could do better than the expenses I pegged. Call it even $90k you could build anything you wanted out of a SC or Carrera. So I guess the question is whats the Carrera VIN number worth? I didn't even take out what you'd get selling off the 3.0 or 3.2 you took out.

You could start with this car, I am guessing you could get it for the $25k and it looks pretty straight:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-SC-Coupe-/281668273229?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4194bcc44d&i tem=281668273229

I am sure there are cheaper ones to start with too.


What would you get if you walked into one of the well known shops and said I have $90k to spend what can I have you build for me? (Stick the other $40k in an S&P ETF)

[trader220]

Well my original point was about the shifting hp numbers but we have gone off on a tangent.

Really, you could buy this car:
Porsche 911 Carrera 2dr | eBay

Then spend the money to make it more of a street car.
Yank the cage out. Put down a little sound proofing and a nice carpet set. Put in a couple of nice seats and regular 3 point belts. Get a street steering wheel and hub, maybe tune the suspension more towards the street, swap in a pair of glass rear quater windows and voila, killer street car. Looks like it already has heat.

IMO it would be way ahead of the "not really a carrera anymore" car for $130k... and the car in that listing would run rings around the green car even if you added some weight by making it more streetable, plus there is a bit of a benefit that its a G50 car.

[Matt Monson]

You're light on the gearbox, by half or more. These days it's $5000 to remanufacture a 915 properly (to 3.6l spec!) and not add a single goodie. I shipped 5 figures of 915 parts to Belgium yesterday for a single bearbox. That was just my goodies, and nothing like synchros or bearings or shift forks.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You're light on the gearbox, by half or more. These days it's $5000 to remanufacture a 915 properly (to 3.6l spec!) and not add a single goodie. I shipped 5 figures of 915 parts to Belgium yesterday for a single bearbox. That was just my goodies, and nothing like synchros or bearings or shift forks.

Fair enough.... call it a solid $90k then. At that price point I am still $40k ahead of the game over the green car, and the build car will run circles around the green car, and and you can make it exactly what you want.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by trader220

Fair enough.... call it a solid $90k then. At that price point I am still $40k ahead of the game over the green car, and the build car will run circles around the green car, and and you can make it exactly what you want.

True, 100% true. This is why I continue to casually look for a rolling chassis orphan that has no numbers matching burden. I drive my cars, but I've got 2 numbers matching cars, one a decent driver and one a bit better than that. I have the means to throw money at either of them but am hesitant in the current market. I want to build a car that I just don't care about the value. I pretend not to care, but the run up the last year or two has scared me away from modifying my cars. I know it is stupid. I just really want my to do my version of an RSR replica and I won't do it on either of the cars I own right now.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

True, 100% true. This is why I continue to casually look for a rolling chassis orphan that has no numbers matching burden. I drive my cars, but I've got 2 numbers matching cars, one a decent driver and one a bit better than that. I have the means to throw money at either of them but am hesitant in the current market. I want to build a car that I just don't care about the value. I pretend not to care, but the run up the last year or two has scared me away from modifying my cars. I know it is stupid. I just really want my to do my version of an RSR replica and I won't do it on either of the cars I own right now.

I am in the exact same position. My 88 Targa is really a gem and I am long from a cheap price. I have done some basic mods which would only take me a few hours to put it back to stock. I really enjoy driving it, the car only has 66k miles, and its cassis red which is one of my favorite Porsche colors. Its too original and nice to start chopping up.

At some point, I'll go the direction we are talking about. Find an unloved coupe and spend the dough to make it some sort of rs ish hot rod. I kind of prefer the sleeper look so subtle flairs with no tail etc etc. 3.6, the right suspension and brakes with clean uncluttered interior. Unassuming color too.

[Matt Monson]

I really shouldn't have said RSR. What I want to do is a replica of Roger Penke's special order RSish Targa.
http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/09L2D231013888/Porsche-911-E-Targa-in-Sunoco-Blue-Built-for-Roger-Penske-1973