Can I afford a 996tt?

[Matt Monson]

I've got a couple customers doing $20-25k rebuilds on 996TT engines right now. If you actually have a problem and have to go all in, it's all the way in. But again, you can always dump out of the car. You'll lose the price of a 996 Carrera if you have to do that, but the odds of you owning the car for 5 years with nothing but maintanence are so much better than driving up to South Lake and playing craps. You'll likely lose less money on the TT than you will at the casino in a day.

I am on your side. Your side is making a decision that makes sense for you. I'm giving you as much information as I can provide to for you to make an educated decision.

[Racerbvd]

Well, the 996TT may do everything well, and may be very fast, but it has no soul.
I did the newer Porsche thing for a bit, but I really enjoy my pre 89 911s much more,

[Westy]

I'm an older white guy who can't jump, don't play basketball, and has no soul. 996 is perfect!

[A914Guy]

I'm 6 months and 2,500 miles into 996TT ownership. It took me almost 2 years to find my car and I bought at the top end of the market price to get a very nice car. So far I have no regrets.

All I've done to date is a tune and enjoy the heck out of it.

I've been an air cooled owner of 914s and 911s for 30+ years and I've experienced a couple Boxsters and a 50th anniversary vet for short periods as well. I will admit the 996TT is not like the earlier Porsche cars, Byron is right about that, nor the Boxster but I certainly won't say it has no soul. It was a big jump in terms of being changed and "modernized" and the up side discussion about the 996TT can go on for quite some time.

With the possible exception of the late series of Carreras and 993s, the comfort level is unmatched and durability of this very complex machine is amazing.

Performance is exceptional if the car is correct and tuneability for the guy that likes to play is there as well. In fact it's probably the cheapest and easiest car to add 80-100hp to.

I still have some air cooled cars so I can get the noise, smell and drive input they deliver at any time. Right now I'm being drawn to the 996 for many positive reasons.

The 996TT market is changing on these cars monthly. My observation is their "availability" is the most significant change. The number of nice 996TTs on Pelican, Rennlist, 6Speed, eBay, Cars.com, Auto Trader, Car Guru and a dozen private dealers is way down. Probably 50% from this time last year and my guess is good Turbos are moving quietly between sellers and buyers vs hitting the commercial sales channels.

If you want a car that's notable anywhere, has exotic car level performance, is durable, fun to drive, safe and affordable, this may be your ride.

2003 996TT, 3 owner, 32K miles, unmolested, X50, PCCB, sport seats, 6 speed, completely stock.

[TH_DUDE]

^^^ Accurate assessment, imo. Great write-up. Amazing looking ride.

[NYNick]

I had two 996's, just not TT's.
I modified the 2003, both suspension and exhaust. That car was just downright fun as s*#t to drive, cornered like anything, sounded just awesome and was one of the best colors I've ever seen. (Dark Teal Metallic, special ordered)
They were never the the best looking Porsches, to be sure, but to say it had no soul is not true. I remember it, clear as day, 12 years later. Loved it.

[A914Guy]

I can appreciate the Teal color Nick. After I brought home the white '03 a close friend got the bug and he was lucky to find a Teal / Savannah Beige '04 TT. It's georgous! The color combination may not be for everyone but it's very classy looking from my POV. He gave $43k for a one owner, 36k mile, well cared for base car with a dealer installed tune. A great find and what a great buy.

He's a muscle car convert and has just fallen in love with this Turbo and I can appreciate why.

I would bet that given the choice to own a similarly priced low mile late air cooled Carrera, he would buy the 996 every time.

[NYNick]

My 03 was Savannah Beige interior too!

That Dark Teal Metallic changes as you walk around the car, kind of like a duck's neck. Just an awesome color!

My 09TT is Ruby Red Metallic. Pretty unusual color for a TT, and turns a lot heads.

[Last911]

Originally Posted by Westy

Absolutely nothing, Rick. Lots of new stuff, all upgrades, alt/reg, top and interior redone, paint is gorgeous. It's everything I 'used' to want. Now I was performance AND comfort with an AC that blows cold and gets decent mileage. Back is pretty much shot, and I have joint pain where I didn't even know I had joints!!! I'm not even sure I want my Z28, and it's on the verge of being 100 restored. Maybe I'm just fickle. Always want want want!!!!

The answer is, and always has been, NC Miata.

I'm re-considering my 911 as well. It's a 'nice' car, but my Miata crushes it in every category except for 'cool.' And I'm old, I can be uncool.

[Westy]

^^^^^ Yup. I've heard nothing but great things about the NC, but I'm 6-3 and 225. Don't think I'd fit in that car. Wife and I have done a LOT of talking. We like to off road a lot, and just don't care that much anymore about fancy cars. The SC is in the shop getting everything done and checked out (mainly that cursed CA smog) then it goes on the chopping block. The Z28 will probably go in a year. Time to downsize and get one reliable car until .......................................

[NYNick]

OMG, Westy, that's sounds like the mid life crisis come to Jesus realization meets practicality. I'm all for that, and have actually been there myself. Then the kids moved out, I got older, bought a house in Florida, started working seriously on my golf handicap and began asking 'now what'?

Porsches have been a part of my life since 1970, and I've had one or another in my garage since then. My house skyrocketed in value, then declined, then went up again, then leveled off. Who cares? I'm not selling.

I'm extremely lucky...I don't need the Porsche money, and my wife doesn't care about my cars. My Porsches aren't going anywhere because I like them, they're a part of my life and life is very very short.

[Farrell]

Man, im in the same boat as you. i really want a 996TT. I've contemplated selling my 911SC to purchase a 996TT. However, there is nothing like the air-cooled cars and they are only going to be harder to get. So, i decided that ill have to save and wait until around next year to pick up the right 996TT.

I dont foresee the 996TT skyrocketing in value like the air-cooled market just yet, based mostly on the production numbers of those cars. There was something like 10,000 996TT made. They seem like a great refined car, that can be driven daily or on long trips with plenty of power.

Are the coolant pipes something that can be a DIY? How hard can it be?

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Farrell

Man, im in the same boat as you. i really want a 996TT. I've contemplated selling my 911SC to purchase a 996TT. However, there is nothing like the air-cooled cars and they are only going to be harder to get. So, i decided that ill have to save and wait until around next year to pick up the right 996TT.

I dont foresee the 996TT skyrocketing in value like the air-cooled market just yet, based mostly on the production numbers of those cars. There was something like 10,000 996TT made. They seem like a great refined car, that can be driven daily or on long trips with plenty of power.

Are the coolant pipes something that can be a DIY? How hard can it be?

Not DIY. Saw it on a GT3 at the track. Poor bastard's first time tracking any car. It's a welded fitting to the block that fails. I guess anything is DIY, but not for me!

[Salty Springs]

Not a huge fan of the 996 but when this 05 4S came up for sale from a fellow Pelican member it kinda got my interest. Fun to drive (ac works etc) very refined until you get on it,then it turns into a beast. Completely different then my 87 Carrera.And yes the hips are beautiful!
Dave

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Well, the 996TT may do everything well, and may be very fast, but it has no soul.
I did the newer Porsche thing for a bit, but I really enjoy my pre 89 911s much more,

I always scratch my head a little bit at this comments. There must be merit to it because lots of people say the same thing. If you mean that the 996tt doesn't smell like partially burnt oil and gas, doesn't have an electrical system that is trying to set the car on fire, and doesn't leave puddles on the garage floor, then ok sure, it has no soul. If it has to do with more subjective driving characteristics, then I'd say the average stock air-cooler has no soul either. To wit:

My M491 coupe has huge presence - really evil looking, sexy car. That's where the sexiness ends. Not particularly fast, sounds like a sewing machine, lazy cams, stock ride height, etc. No soul at all compared to my '72 911 which has sport exhaust, 9.8:1 CR, hot cams, Euro ride height, and Bilstein HDs all around. Plenty of soul there. It really comes down to the car.

All that said - the 996tt does need some tweaks. A tune (flash) is a must-do to wake up the car. Then a set of lowering springs and a louder exhaust are needed. Even with a flash, the car is still nearly as silent as a Camry.

Cost of ownership? I don't know too much yet from direct experience - but all the consumables that I've priced (brake and clutch parts, for example) are remarkably affordable. Excluding the engine, there is quite a bit of parts commonality with the normally aspirated 996. I did the coolant bottle myself for $165. I can see how labor might kill you on this car - while the 996tt coolant bottle is the same part number as the 996 and is in the same location, it took me twice as much effort to replace it on the turbo car. The engine bay is just packed with pipes, ducting, hoses, and other plumbing. The coolant pipe issue has almost nil occurrences on cars that aren't tracked, and it can be addressed by a DIYer (albeit a highly competent and well equipped one). Still, if you are a checkbook mechanic, then yes, this could be a painful car to own - particularly for non-routine maintenance. Doesn't matter much to me - I plan on doing all the work myself.

Everyone that has driven my 996tt, or ridden shotgun in it, has had their minds completely blown. Here's a picture of yours truly upon delivery of the car:



Here's a buddy of mine (and fellow pelican member) getting his first drive in it:

Originally Posted by Salty Springs

Not a huge fan of the 996 but when this 05 4S came up for sale from a fellow Pelican member it kinda got my interest. Fun to drive (ac works etc) very refined until you get on it,then it turns into a beast. Completely different then my 87 Carrera.And yes the hips are beautiful!
Dave

Sounds like a helluva guy, that's a beautiful car. Did you say hips?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I can't help Westy on what to buy or not buy, but thought I'd throw in my $.02 on soul, which is completely subjective. Soul is matching a car's special attributes directly to a driver's specific wants and needs. Soul to one person is a rough, loud ride to another.

In no particular order:

69E Coupe, stock: tons of soul. lightweight, high revving, quick little car that was tossable and fun. Lookback percentage: 100%

86 Coupe, stock: no soul. Slow, ponderous, not very interesting. Lookback percentage: 50%

2000 Boxster S, stock: fun, fast, modern, not much soul, more appliance. Lookback percentage: 25%

84 M491 Coupe: not much soul. Slow, heavy. Only saving grace was the handling and the brakes. Cried out for a 3.6 or Turbo engine. Lookback percentage: 100%

73T Coupe: broke the soul meter, done. Gutted super-lightweight with a 3.2. 19/26 bars, Bil Sports, big bars. Very fast, very raw, best therapy money can buy. Lookback percentage: 100%, mostly in disbelief you just drove it like you did.

84 Targa: tons of soul. 22/29s, lightweight (as much stripped out as you can including Momo fixed back buckets), strong motor. Fast and comfortable, I'm sure mostly from Targa body flex. Lookback percentage: 75%

2001 996TT: The fastest Camry you've ever driven. Great car. 20 years from now, i can see driving one. The best thing I can say about the car is that it was so fast, all of my senses that are used to relatively slow cars, could not safely keep up with the capabilities of the car. I bet it would take 2-3 months of considerable driving to catch up to the car's potential.


The one thing I can add to Westy's quest is, "Can you afford not to drive a car that stirs your soul, whatever car that may be?"

If your SC doesn't do it for you anymore, it's a great time to sell. As life changes, so do the things that turn us on. I'd drive a couple of Camry's, errr, 996TTs and see what you think.

Good luck!

[Westy]

Nice post, Shaun. Lookback on the SC will be 25% until I see one on the road! At the age of 59, I can honestly the only car I regret selling was our '87 turbo T-Bird. Had/did everything I wanted, but I was younger then and newer was always better. Right!!!

[Matt Monson]

Coolant fittings only need to be pinned or welded if you track the car. Don't worry about it otherwise. Or pay to do it when you eventually need a clutch job. It's an engine out thing.

The car is a gt3 with a turbo and awd. I don't know how that can be soulless. But that's just me.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Westy

Nice post, Shaun. Lookback on the SC will be 25% until I see one on the road! At the age of 59, I can honestly the only car I regret selling was our '87 turbo T-Bird. Had/did everything I wanted, but I was younger then and newer was always better. Right!!!

IMHO, if you are at 25% lookback, there's no question about selling the car. And these days, the world is your oyster, it's a great time in car history with so much to choose from. Whether it's a 996TT (you really have to drive one, phenomenal cars) or something else equally interesting, the hardest part may be choosing from among 3 very different cars.

I hope you'll post about your journey on OT.

[biosurfer1]

"soul" sounds like one of those keywords realtors use when they know they have a POS on their hands...up there with "quaint" (aka tiny) and "diamond in the rough" (aka junk)