Sept 2015 Excellence Turbo Pricing - Wow

[Black968]

Has anyone checked out the Sept 2015 of Excellence? New Turbo pricing confirms what we all know has been going on for a while now. But having a hard time believing it. Apparently my 86 Coupe is valued between 90K (average) and 120K (excellent) USD. I wish I bought three of these back in the day!

[WPOZZZ]

Have you seen the Hagerty values? https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=73862 Just wait for the latest report to be released in Sept and it should jump even more. The market is crazy.

[Westy]

Because I'm lazy..........what did it say about SCs and 3.2s?

[Black968]

Nothing on the SC's or Carrera this month. But here is the link to Haggarty
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=14558

[dporsche74]

Oh yeah we are ALL car rich now from are smelly oily cars.. Love it ..

[SCadaddle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viAF6CFwU0E

[jwasbury]

While the 930 values have indeed risen substantially, I think reality is that these valuation guides are inflated. A member of this forum has a lovely '79 listed in the classifieds right now for the last few weeks. Rare color, original and stock condition, 31k miles. Listed below #3 Hagerty pricing and he's lowered the price a couple times (I assume because he's not found a buyer and he's motivated to sell).

I went through the same thing a month back selling my '79. The cars have appreciated a lot in the last few years, but the market isn't as "hot" as the value charts might have you believe. There isn't a huge line of people with $100k of cash in hand that are ready to spend it on an old turbo Porsche. IMHO.

[njcycleguy]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

While the 930 values have indeed risen substantially, I think reality is that these valuation guides are inflated.

The cars have appreciated a lot in the last few years, but the market isn't as "hot" as the value charts might have you believe. There isn't a huge line of people with $100k of cash in hand that are ready to spend it on an old turbo Porsche. IMHO.

+1. The market is cooling. I believe the stratospheric triple digit (percentage) appreciation is way over. I also believe the Euro buyers who had it great there for a while when the Euro's exchange rate was much higher have slowed their interest. The equality to the dollar I believe makes the exportation of US cars less desirable.

That said we may see incremental bumps and dips here and there but I think the cars have hit their max for the time being. I've watched many cars go around a few times on eBay and cars that are sitting online for weeks, in some cases months.

[Skwerl]

Exceptional examples at prestigious live auctions may still bring top dollar, but now that every dealer and their mother has heard "air-cooled 911s are hot hot hot, baby!", the market is saturated with basically ordinary cars and obvious money grabs. I'd think even the investor/collector types have to be seeing that and thinking maybe they should hold off, which could reinforce the chilling effect over time.

[cover]

Some seriously home grown theories offered in this thread.

[Skwerl]

Originally Posted by cover

Some seriously home grown theories offered in this thread.

Good point.

Much more professionally grown theories include, "BUY BUY BUY!," "They can only go up and up!," and "This time it's different, I promise."

[cover]

Originally Posted by Skwerl

Good point.

Much more professionally grown theories include, "BUY BUY BUY!," "They can only go up and up!," and "This time it's different, I promise."

Which previous incident compares to the current situation?
This is not quick finances all chasing the same investment oppertunity.

[Skwerl]

Originally Posted by Someone buying tulips in Holland in the 1600s

Which previous incident compares to the current situation?

Originally Posted by Someone buying an Enzo-era Ferrari in 1989

Which previous incident compares to the current situation?

Originally Posted by Someone buying a muscle car in 2004

Which previous incident compares to the current situation?

Originally Posted by Someone buying a McMansion in 2006

Which previous incident compares to the current situation?

That's what makes these things fun - they're always unique enough that people can say "this time is different, for real." Otherwise, nobody would be on board, and you're never really sure until it's all over.

Obviously, AC 911s aren't going through the craziest or fastest bubble history has ever seen, but any time an object's market value inflates rapidly past its intrinsic value, it stands a pretty strong risk of falling again depending on collector whims and myriad other factors.

(Also, I think the amount of dealer/flipper action going on which ratchets it all up further and faster is indeed "chasing an investment opportunity.")

The point is, pretending the cars will never go down again is just as homegrown as saying we'll see cheap 911s again any day now. Incidentally, it's also a viewpoint held most strongly by current owners who are a bit giddy and wishful with their appreciating asset, I tend to notice.

[JakobM]

The dollar vs. euro rates has an impact IMO. Cars in US is now appr. 20% more expensive in Europe to import as compared to appr. 1 year ago looking on the exhange rate alone. In 2011 the US dollar was 35% cheaper as compared to current exhange rates today.

USD vs. EUR develpement in last 5 years


Trend in Europe last 5 years has been some retailers have flipped 930's continiously and asking money way above market/selling price waiting until the market would reach that level. What beleived would newer sell sold 3-6 month later. Now the market price has increased 500% compared to 5 years ago (e.g. the 3.0L turbo). I dont see the market move those percantage increase today obviously due to the starting point in 2010, however still same amount increase per year i.e. appr. IMO 25TEUR increase in list price per year for 3.0L turbos in Europe (so far). Looking back in 2010 a 3.0L 75, 76, 77 was listed and sold for 25-35 TEUR in Europe. Today not many wants to sell their 3.0L 930's and the buyer segment has totally changed as well

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by cover

Some seriously home grown theories offered in this thread.

I offered no theories, only opinion based on personal experience in selling my 930 a month ago, and observation of nice cars that aren't selling at prices anywhere near Hagerty valuation charts.

I will choose to believe my own personal experiences and observations over the reports of an insurance company who stands to gain financially if its customers perception of value is higher than market reality.

People can believe their 930 cars are worth Hagerty's values all they want, who cares?

What would be actually interesting to know is if you are able to exchange that 930 car into an amount of cash money equal to the fervently discussed published market values today. That would indicate these figures are true market value. I don't believe you can.

[93097004xx]

One thing to keep in mind it that 930s are still bringing BIG money at auction and Im talking about a 1983 930 with 13k miles selling for $140,000. That was last month. I dont think we have seen a "cooling" at all. Keep this in mind maybe 10 total 930s have ever reached about 100k on ebay. Thats because ebay is nothing but wholesalers and flippers bidding on these cars. Ebayers want to buy your car for wholesale.

[93097004xx]

"A member of this forum has a lovely '79 listed in the classifieds right now for the last few weeks. Rare color, original and stock condition, 31k miles. Listed below #3 Hagerty pricing and he's lowered the price a couple times (I assume because he's not found a buyer and he's motivated to sell)."

That car (forum member) will make it to $75,000. If he decides to take it.. It will get relisted by a flipper for $110,000 and sell in a few months for $89,000.

I watch this very same scenario happen over and over.

This car is bid to $70,000 despite being a rough car. Seems to be the same bidders as the the ones bidding on our forum members car? Could it be the perceived high reserve as scared off some bidders?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-930-TURBO-/231623413109?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35edd4cd75&i tem=231623413109

THE KEY TO SELLING ANYTHING IS FINDING THE RIGHT BUYER AND THE RIGHT DEMOGRAPHIC.

Ebay is a good place to liquidate something fast and our forum member will do that!

[Skwerl]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

One thing to keep in mind it that 930s are still bringing BIG money at auction and Im talking about a 1983 930 with 13k miles selling for $140,000.

I wonder how quickly that car would have sold if it were listed on Cars.com, Autotrader, eBay, etc. at $135k (aka, $5k below "market value" - a good deal).

[93097004xx]

Here are few cars from OUR FORUM that have sold recently. These cars are selling.

1982 930 Sold 7/9/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/868497-82-porsche-930-sale-ne-ohio.html

1983 930 Sold 6/23/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/870984-fs-1983-porsche-930-turbo.html

1989 930 Sold 6/30/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/867738-1989-porsche-911-turbo-g50-930-originally-owned-autographed-wayne-gretzky.html

1986 930 Sold 7/11/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/868019-1986-porsche-930-turbo.html

1985 930 Sold 7/15/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/874951-fs-1985-porsche-930-coupe.html

1988 930 Sold 5/11/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/864858-1988-porsche-930-priced-sell-quick.html

1985 930 Sold 5/19/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/864470-1985-porsche-930-a.html

1979 930 Sold 6/9/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/864837-1979-930-rare-stunning-minerva-blue.html

1978 930 Sold 5/2/15
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/863408-iconic-1978-930-turbo.html

[Skwerl]

I don't think anyone is saying the cars don't sell period, it's that they often sit unsold at the "did you see Hagerty's chart?!" prices that guide a lot of dealers and profiteers.