Rust Free! ...Ahem

[KNS]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

On point here-
Selling a car labled "Rust free" ! This obviously means different things to different folks (no matter how the rust is-was generated.)
I know for sure, the rust should be hard to find, not glaring at me!

I'm a desert snob (so to speak). If I even see a little discoloration on some of the zinc surfaces, I'm not interested. My daily driver with nearly 200,000 miles is a dream to work on when it comes to removing fasteners. You get spoiled.

My '84 Carrera spent its whole in SoCal and the southwest. When I went to remove the (original) nuts and bolts on the catalytic converter to install a pre muffler, not only did all the fasteners come off with just hand tools, they were in such good shape I reused all of them.

[nota]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

Rust isn't alive. It's an oxide. Product of a chemical reaction.
Specifically, it's an oxide "created by the redox reaction of iron and oxygen in the presence of water or air moisture. "

( or maybe the reaction to someone holding a set of Porsche car keys while thinking of the ocean, but this hasn't been scientifically proven )

What's in a desert? not a lotta air moisture. Gotta have all the ingredients or you won't get cake.



Here, read up on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

rust grows
it looks very like a bacteria growth in a petri dish
there something alive in the rust reaction chain
yes the result is iron-oxide
but there a bio-process going on
that is why if you paint over rust without removing all of it
it reappears

http://news.discovery.com/history/titanic-bacteria-rust-wreck.htm
Named Halomonas titanicae, the bacterium was isolated from samples of so-called rusticles present on the wreck.

[Mick_D]

It isn't alive in any way. It's a chemical reaction, very similar to fire. Fire is not alive.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

It isn't alive in any way. It's a chemical reaction, very similar to fire. Fire is not alive.

This is correct. Oxidation seems alive, because of how it spreads, but just like fire is very fast oxidation that can "grow" as long as the three elements are there, rust is a slow oxidation that can "grow" as long as the three elements are there. The three elements are: thing to be oxidized, the thing doing the oxidation, and sufficient energy to keep the reaction going forward.

[nota]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

This is correct. Oxidation seems alive, because of how it spreads, but just like fire is very fast oxidation that can "grow" as long as the three elements are there, rust is a slow oxidation that can "grow" as long as the three elements are there. The three elements are: thing to be oxidized, the thing doing the oxidation, and sufficient energy to keep the reaction going forward.

no if you let a sheet of iron sit out in the rain
you got iron O2 and water all over it
the rust will not be even all over it
but will be in clumps that grow as a mass
the titanic link lists 27 bacteria found in the rust
that is why the rust clumps bio-activity caused chemisty
not just water+O2 on iron

rust is a life induced result

[afterburn 549]

I have seen "iron sick" keels in sail boats. looks like they have a disease !

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by nota

rust is a life induced result

You can claim it as much as you like, but it's not true. It is a purely chemical reaction, and does not require a living organism. There is zero scientific evidence for your claim, and the process is so well-understood that even the biggest of skeptics will raise an eyebrow at your contention.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by KNS

I'm a desert snob (so to speak). If I even see a little discoloration on some of the zinc surfaces, I'm not interested. My daily driver with nearly 200,000 miles is a dream to work on when it comes to removing fasteners. You get spoiled.

My '84 Carrera spent its whole in SoCal and the southwest. When I went to remove the (original) nuts and bolts on the catalytic converter to install a pre muffler, not only did all the fasteners come off with just hand tools, they were in such good shape I reused all of them.

I am a desert snob, People in AZ. look at So CAl cars as better than back East but still from a rusty area, usually the Chrome has that salt air pitting and has to be redone because of the harsh environment next to the ocean, where most Porsche's are in California.
California cars are usually considered rusty to people from Arizona, despite what California owners and sellers say.
So yeah "rusty" means different things to different people.

[Mick_D]

Science is magic to you isn't it?

Originally Posted by nota

no if you let a sheet of iron sit out in the rain
you got iron O2 and water all over it
the rust will not be even all over it
but will be in clumps that grow as a mass
the titanic link lists 27 bacteria found in the rust
that is why the rust clumps bio-activity caused chemisty
not just water+O2 on iron

rust is a life induced result

[Mick_D]

The next invasion won't be from aliens from other planets. It'll be Rust Monsters From Used Cars.

[nota]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

Science is magic to you isn't it?

did you read the titanic link ?

science is use of updated facts to understand why things happen

if rust is simply O2+H2O+Fe
why does it GROW in clumps
why if you paint over rust does it bubble up

there is something happening
and you don't know what it is do you mr jones

point being rust never sleeps

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by nota

did you read the titanic link ?

I sure did. It does not, in any way, support your claim.

Sorry.

[Ronnie's.930]

Eric, when did you start reading?!?! I though you only looked at porn in your spare time (like I do)!!!!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Eric, when did you start reading?!?! I though you only looked at porn in your spare time (like I do)!!!!

Seriously.

In between the porn, I like to have some down time, you know...

[Mick_D]

Earlier I compared rust with fire. that's incorrect. It's really more like ash than fire.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

Earlier I compared rust with fire. that's incorrect. It's really more like ash than fire.

The process is exactly the same. It's merely the speed at which it occurs.

[Mick_D]

But... but... but... aw gee whillickers

[nota]

Originally Posted by Mick_D

Earlier I compared rust with fire. that's incorrect. It's really more like ash than fire.

fire creates heat that speeds the combustion reaction

ash does not create more ash
but rust creates more rust , WHY?

rust is a local reaction catalyzed by something at the reaction location
I think there is bio-active something going on

Biogenic Magnetite Formation through Anaerobic Biooxidation of Fe(II)

Project – Super specialized Bio-active surfaces - Projects - Danish Technological Institute

https://www.biooekonomie-bw.de/en/articles/news/mineral-forming-bacteria-of-great-usage-value/
quote from link
"In an iron- and silicate-containing solution, green sulphur bacteria, purple sulphur bacteria and purple non-sulphur bacteria are able to oxidise iron (II) to iron (III) compounds at 20˚ C. One representative of these bacteria, Rhodobacter ferrooxidans, was not discovered until 1993 and it was several more years before further papers were published on this bacterial species. In Tübingen, the bacterium has become a kind of pet project for Kappler's team of researchers. The findings obtained with R. ferrooxidans are a geobiological and geomineral breakthrough, and are so important that they will be included in fundamental science books. "The results open up a completely new understanding of early earth development and the ‘evolution' of atmosphere and hydrosphere," said Kappler.

[Mick_D]

That's definitely NOT the rust that's happening on cars. For one thing, the bacterial oxidation you are quoting only occurs in ANAEROBIC conditions. Our atmosphere is not anaerobic.

But hey, go ahead, think what you like. You will anyway.

[nota]

some does or did long ago
but
not all

and the O as in oxidation
needs to be there
so truly anaerobic NO

point is bugs cause rust is a fact
not something I came up with
helps to know what you are fighting
if you want to win