Need some expert advice 82 SC

[MZ3 SBC]

My buddy who is a hard working public servant is buying for himself his dream car...an early 80s 911.

The values have moved up - it is hard to know what is fair value,

Could you guys help me out with current valuation for a good driver 911 with 70 to 75k miles,,,and where is the best value to be found,,,,82 sc/ 83 sc or 84/85 Carrera

I see an 82 SC offered in the classifieds for $40k- car has an alleged 61k miles but paint work for sure, car fax shows 58k miles through 94....then less than 4K miles over the next 20 years .....

This is good guy nod I want to help him buy the best car he can get for his budget.

Thanks ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/892411-1982-911sc-blk-blk-ny-61k.html

[DougZ]

If that car was concourse quality with no engine or transmission work needed it would be worth $40K. It does look all original. I think you can buy excellent SC for around $30K range. I would prefer to deal with private owner that has owned a car for a while not some flipper or a dealer. Low mileage is not the most important criteria to pick a quality car.

[MARISOL78sc]

Seems like really strong money for that car. I don't see it, PPI from an air-cooled specialist is essential.

[tirwin]

83 was the last year of the SC. 81-83 are pretty similar - minor differences. I own an '83 myself. The 3.0 motors from the SCs are generally considered pretty bulletproof but there are some things to consider.

The 3.0 is known for possible broken head studs. It also uses CIS fuel injection. Starting in '84 Porsche went to the 3.2 motor and Motronic fuel injection. CIS works fine when everything is working correctly, no vac leaks, and everything is tuned properly. When CIS cars have aged and not been maintained it can take a little patience to get the CIS sorted out. The 3.2 is a bit more refined -- you can chip it to get a few extra HP. Other than that , the differences in early 3.2 Carreras and the late 3.0 SCs are mostly cosmetic. They both used the same 915 transmission.

In terms of market valuation, as you noted the market has run up recently. I saw an '83 cabriolet in November. I'd say it was a 7.5/10 and the guy was asking $34k. One fender and door had been repainted and didn't quite match. Other than that it was really clean. The car you're talking about is asking $40k and needs paint work? I could be wrong about the market but that seems too high. Paint work can be really expensive.

If it were me, and I'm saying this as an SC owner, I would probably go for the 3.2. That old adage of "buy the newest car you can afford" is probably true here.

[MZ3 SBC]

Thanks- I think I am getting the message.

- find a private seller
- 40K is high end of current market for an 82 SC
- car at the price should be documented and unblemished

The car iin question has some blemishes:
- AC is not working
- Sunroof motor makes sound but roof does not work
- car was painted and some signs of prior body repair from an accident ( not on car fax- could be prior to 94? )
- Idle hangs and RPM will slowly float down when car is at rest ( vacuum issue?)
- Motor felt a little soft to me

The PPI with a valve cover remove to check the head studs is not cheap...so maybe this car is a pass. I had hoped I could find him an excellent 87-88 Carrera Coupe driver car for that money. No sense in rushing into a bad situation.

Thanks guys,,,

[dpizi]

One other thing is check the VIN and make sure it is a US spec car. There were a bunch of early to mid 80's cars that were ROW "grey market" cars. Modifications to allow owners to import them were often not up to factory quality. Prices were traditionally about 10% lower than US cars but that may have changed with the recent rise in prices of air cooled cars.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by MZ3 SBC

My. Buddy , who some a hard working public servant is buying for himself his dream car...an early 80s 911.

The values have moved up - it is hard to know what is fair value,

Could you guys help me out with current valuation for a good driver 911 with 70 to 75k miles,,,and where is the best value to be found,,,,82 sc/ 83 sc or 84/85 Carrera

I see an 82 SC offered in the classifieds for $40k- car has an alleged 61k miles but paint work for sure, car fax shows 58k miles through 94....then less than 4K miles over the next 20 years .....

This is good guy nod I want to help him buy the best car he can get for his budget.

Thanks ...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/892411-1982-911sc-blk-blk-ny-61k.html

MZ3,

Take special attention to the odometer reading/s. Due to the current rise in the prices of air cooled 911 Porsches there are so many low mileage cars now on sale. I've never seen so many low mileage SC cars for sale until 2015 and it is growing. Sometimes I am skeptical about the authenticity of the mileage of these cars. A $40K SC car should look like a show car or a concourse winner type car.

Well, this might not be for everyone but when I buy an SC or a 3.2 Carrera, I look for the best looking car with perfect paint and interior, excellent body with no known accident, decent transmission, and a running engine. A running engine is a bonus for me because since I went to engine rebuilding, it would cost me less to rebuild an engine than have the car painted and make the interior looks great.

Remember this, a good buy would not last long and would be grabbed by someone who knows about it. Unless the car is hidden from the public, it is unlikely that it will stay unclaimed. Whatever you and your buddy decide to do, use some prudence in making this decision. Wish you luck for finding his dream car.

Tony

[82 SC]

Get the money ready and look for a deal. Deals go super fast and you have to pull the trigger right away. I got so lucky with getting my 82 SC that if I had hesitated even a little it would have been gone. Know what they go for have money ready or at least have a good credit union where you can get a quick loan on a car. And may you get very luck!

[OldSpool87]

Best advice I can give is make sure to get a PPI and have patience. These are not limited production run vehicles. Your buddy's dream car is out there if he can be patient. Everyone has a story about the one that got away. Most folks are pretty happy if not thrilled with the one that showed up right after. Go private. Buy from an enthusiast. Good luck.

[javadog]

That's not a $40k, by any stretch of the imagination. Too many things wrong and rest assured there will be more found in a PPI. It has a lot of wear for a 61k mile car, so either the mileage is wrong, or the owner was an idiot.

There's more spread in values between a good car and a bad one, than between a late SC and an early Carrera. Find the best car you can and don't worry as much about the year. Your buddy may want to drive an early SC, a late SC and a couple Carreras just to learn the differences. He may prefer the driving experience of one over the other.

JR

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by DougZ

If that car was concourse quality with no engine or transmission work needed it would be worth $40K. It does look all original. I think you can buy excellent SC for around $30K range.

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

A $40K SC car should look like a show car or a concourse winner type car.

Uhm, no and no. Concourse quality cars are a different league, they're cars like this one:

1982 911 SC coupe Grand Prix White/Black 19,633 miles | Sloancars

And they go for much, much more than 40k.

And you most definitely cannot buy an "excellent" SC for anywhere near $30k. $30k buys you a "good" targa or a "driver-quality fair" coupe, but doesn't get anywhere remotely near an "excellent" car.

[Nachtfalter]

That looks like a nice black on black coupe. The tail is silly but if it passes the compression and head stud test, he will sell it and it probably won't be far off his asking.

How much would any of you ask for it?

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

That looks like a nice black on black coupe. The tail is silly but if it passes the compression and head stud test, he will sell it and it probably won't be far off his asking.

How much would any of you ask for it?

With he flaws that the OP has identified, that's clearly not worth anywhere near asking. If it were as good as advertised, it would easily be a high 30s car.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

That looks like a nice black on black coupe. The tail is silly but if it passes the compression and head stud test, he will sell it and it probably won't be far off his asking.

How much would any of you ask for it?

It's poorly detailed and has a bunch of issues that could be and should be fixed if the dealer wanted to sell the car for all the money that it will bring.

It doesn't have a leather interior, it has leather faces on the front seats and vinyl elsewhere. That's the "nearly free" interior you got in 1982.

You may think the tail looks silly but that's the tail you got in 1982 if you ordered a car with front and rear spoilers.

The mileage is suspect. The wear on the interior isn't in line with the mileage, so either the miles have been rolled back or the owner used the car hard. Which is more appealing to you?

4k miles in 20 years guarantees a bunch of things will need to be sorted out, assuming the miles are correct, which is not a given. Since the dealer can't be bothered to fix the little things, you think he's gone through the deferred maintenance issues? Not a chance. That car is a money pit for the next owner to sort out.

I'd reserve $10k to sort the car out and that's not counting any major engine issues or problems in the paint or body that might come up in a PPI.

The dealer may get more than I'd pay for the car, largely because there's always at least one guy that doesn't know enough about what he's buying and one guy is all it takes to sell a car.

JR

[dad911]

Originally Posted by MZ3 SBC

.....
Could you guys help me out with current valuation for a good driver 911 with 70 to 75k miles,,,and where is the best value to be found,,,,82 sc/ 83 sc or 84/85 Carrera

I see an 82 SC offered in the classifieds for $40k- car has an alleged 61k miles but paint work for sure, car fax shows 58k miles through 94....then less than 4K miles over the next 20 years .....
.....

I would assume the mileage is incorrect on any 911 I looked at, unless seller had a pile of receipts from reputable shops with service records. Broken odometers, replacing with higher MPH speedos, and replacing euro KPH with MPH all commonly happened. I would place more emphasis at rust, condition, and leakdown/compression tests than looking for a 75k mile driver.

I'm saying don't discount a 150k mile car if it checks out.

[NYNick]

MZ, you have seen the car and driven it. For $40k, everything should work and the car should be really, really nice. Not concours, of course, but not many are even though they claim to be.

Having the money ready is great advice. Having the PPI shop ready is also good advice, if it's local. I see a lot of cars I'd like to inspect, but they're 1000 miles away or more. Personally, it's a lot of coordinated work to spend $30k plus on a long distance car, but it opens up your market considerably. Just way harder to pull off unless you're very dedicated to the purchase.

I think you can find a 'good' SC for $30-$35K. Take your time, or tell your buddy to. There seem to be a lot of cars popping up lately. Be ready.

Nick

[Nachtfalter]

I guess I missed his list of problems.

I will say the leather in my coupe has not aged as well as the vinyl in my cabriolet, which looks totally unused. My cabriolet in general looks like a new car with 180K miles, it drives, smells, handles, and looks brand new.... it's really amazing.

So don't count out a higher mile car.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

I guess I missed his list of problems.

- AC is not working
- Sunroof motor makes sound but roof does not work
- car was painted and some signs of prior body repair from an accident ( not on car fax- could be prior to 94? )
- Idle hangs and RPM will slowly float down when car is at rest ( vacuum issue?)
- Motor felt a little soft to me
- less than 4K miles over the last 20 years .....

If you spend 5 minutes on the dealer's web site looking for more;

- high wear on driver's seat
- interior isn't leather, as claimed
- unusual wear on sunroof lining, indicating misalignment
- broken power antenna
- aftermarket radio, radio faceplate is missing
- car is poorly detailed
- car is poorly documented on the web site
- car comes from a bad part of the country to own a 911

I could go on...

JR

[MZ3 SBC]

YOU GUYS ALL ROCK...thanks to all. This has been an excellent exchange. You all know what you are talking about, and I appreciate the time you all put into the responses. This is excellent advice.

It is so easy to get passionate about any one of these cars. Cars are like beautiful woman and puppies...hard not to want to bring them all home . What a mess that could cause lol

I don't think anyone minds paying up for a well maintained car...but knowing what a respective car is worth and getting it at that price is not so easy. Nobody likes to over pay....especially to a flipper dealer on the highway.

[MZ3 SBC]

Visited 3 exotic / high end performance car shops in long island to view thier 911 offerings. 1 place dealt in absolutely prestine examples and was commanding strong prices. The other 2 are in the business of buying anything with a 911 badge and slapping some duct tape and shoe polish on the car and asking for record setting prices.

They all think this market will get hotter before it gets cold and expect prices to rise another 10% into spring.

Don't they!