Scottsdale sales decline

[2ndTARGA]

Scottsdale car auction posts first decline since 2010

Yet there was an oversupply of some models that have seen big price run-ups in recent years. The number of 1963-73 Porsche 911s went up by 66 percent this year from last, and their average sale price decreased by 20 percent.

[Skwerl]

We've got an RM Sotheby's in Paris coming up and then Amelia Island auctions in March that will be pretty darn interesting.

Paris: http://www.rmsothebys.com/pa16/paris/lots/?feature=Yes&category=all&year=&sort=lot&view=list &SaleCode=PA16&fromYear=&toYear=&lot=&make=porsche &model1=&submit=Search

A couple of Amelia Island's:

http://www.rmsothebys.com/am16/amelia-island/lots/?feature=Yes&category=all&year=&sort=make&view=lis t&SaleCode=AM16&fromYear=&toYear=&lot=&make=porsch e&model1=&submit=Search

http://www.goodingco.com/auction/amelia-island-2016/

[wgwollet]

How do you explain the 930 prices?

[Skwerl]

Not surprisingly, Hagerty is quick to remind us there's nothing to see here, keep calm, and carry on.

https://news.classiccars.com/mckeel-hagerty-talks-mona-lisa-cars-mustache-muscle/

Originally Posted by wgwollet

How do you explain the 930 prices?

Which 930 prices?

Like this one?

1978 930, paint-to-sample, blue interior
Estimate: $130-160k
Sold: $107,500
1978 Porsche 930 | Gooding & Company

Or this one?

1979 930, red/black, 26k miles, one owner till 2014
Estimate: $175-225k
Sold: $107,500
1979 Porsche 930 | Gooding & Company

Or this one?

1988 930, red/black, 29k miles, "concourse winner"
Estimate: $175-225k
Sold: $137,500
1988 Porsche 930 | Gooding & Company

[JacobS911]

Interesting articles.. I didn't know Seinfeld was offering up 18 of his Porsches! Thought it was just 3.

Prices go up and down with anything though. Not much we can do about it. Maybe this will help our fellow enthusiasts enjoy their cars a little more!

[metalracer]

The way this article ends makes me wonder how much of the sales has dipped in January because of the growing number of auction dates - hell, heavily promoted "EVENTS" - every year? To me, the market and industry is growing, though, maybe not as fast as the auctioneers would like. It's better to look at the year-end total results, of course. Seems to me that last year didn't start-off with a bang, but it was respectable and things continued to pick-up throughout the rest of the year.

[mattC2993]

It would be interesting to see if there is a decline in sales to Europe. I didn't hear too many foreign accents at the auctions this year.

[Nick Triesch]

I think most of us on Pelican do not have collectible cars. I bet most of us have cars like mine, between a 3 and 4 car with a lot of miles that we drive and is our hobby. So it all does not really matter unless you have a perfect car that you do not drive to keep miles down. What fun is that?

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I think most of us on Pelican do not have collectible cars. I bet most of us have cars like mine, between a 3 and 4 car with a lot of miles that we drive and is our hobby. So it all does not really matter unless you have a perfect car that you do not drive to keep miles down. What fun is that?

Yeah I agree, the headline auction cars and the run of the mill SCs or 3.2s or even 964s and 993s are quite separate worlds.

[soundbehindyou]

In the later part of 2015 I have seen many 930's for sale and also many 993 Turbos for sale as the recent 2 year escalation most likely prompted many to take the high sale numbers.....however, the abundance of sellers thinking the same thing contributes to a glut of turbos for sale, that in itself would soften any market.

[misterwaterfall]

Agreed on the turbos flooding the market but I still find find a decent driver for a reasonable price so sellers still think they are worth the moon. I've been waiting for a modded driver to pop up in hopes it wouldn't have an 80k+ ask attached but no luck lately.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

. . . unless you have a perfect car that you do not drive to keep miles down. What fun is that?

Absolutely zero fun, unless one is a q-tipper!

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by misterwaterfall

Agreed on the turbos flooding the market but I still find find a decent driver for a reasonable price so sellers still think they are worth the moon. I've been waiting for a modded driver to pop up in hopes it wouldn't have an 80k+ ask attached but no luck lately.

Turbos are a world market. Impossible to "flood the market" especially with fewer than 15,000 930s remaining worldwide. These cars have a world audience and it is a HUGE one.


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[G450X]

Originally Posted by misterwaterfall

Agreed on the turbos flooding the market but I still find find a decent driver for a reasonable price so sellers still think they are worth the moon. I've been waiting for a modded driver to pop up in hopes it wouldn't have an 80k+ ask attached but no luck lately.

Not too long ago (5 -7 years) decent early 930's were $25k to $30k, boy have things changed. Good luck in the hunt, they made a few - they have to be out there somewhere.

I think a big economic downturn is around the corner - which will be good for true enthusiasts...

[2ndTARGA]

Originally Posted by G450X

I think a big economic downturn is around the corner - which will be good for true enthusiasts...

+1. Could be a perfect storm ahead for speculators that moved into the classic car "asset class" without any connection to the cars. The usual spring inventory bump + tax season + margin calls? Especially if more evidence surfaces that prices are softening. Some investors will finally realize that cars don't pay dividends and were only interesting while prices were going up.

All pure speculation of course - but I think I'm going to wait a while longer before buying anything.

[misterwaterfall]

I'm in the same camp. Targeting about a year from now in hopes things pull back across the board.

[Skwerl]

As a point of interest, I'll mention that even just the perception of a withdrawal in prices can actually hasten the process as buyers decide to wait for prices to drop and stop buying. Adding to the fun is when sellers have the same (wrong or not) perception and start trying to unload everything they have before prices recede more.

I'm not totally convinced we're at that stage yet, especially with Hagerty's and collector car dealers assuring us all is well, but future auctions this year will be educational.

[techweenie]

930s had a huge runup last year. Looking soft now. Perhaps the market was shallow.

On the other hand, 993 Turbos are seeing crazy prices.

Not having seen the examples discussed, I have to defer to people who were there, and I heard a lot of commentary about 911 restorations that weren't up to a high standard. An RS that "only" brought $580K had forged stampings on the VIN tag and engine.

[Skwerl]

Originally Posted by techweenie

On the other hand, 993 Turbos are seeing crazy prices.

A very select few, like that TTS that inexplicably went to almost $500k or the generic yellow 30k-miler that hit $220k.

Elsewhere, TTs with over ~25k miles aren't even getting close to that, particularly as miles go up. Last I checked there were something like 50+ TTs on Autotrader alone, most of which haven't moved in months.

I haven't looked this week to see if dealers are thinking their 30k-mile TTs are now $240k cars and raised prices. (From the $190k they had it at for the last 5 months...)

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by 2ndTARGA

Scottsdale car auction posts first decline since 2010

So the wealthy are buying air cooled 911s with the funds from their multimillion dollar collector car sales. Makes sense $100k on a classic 911 and keep the other $1000000.


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