991R median price forecast

[Jayboundless]

Curious if Jack Olsen was offered one?

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by Jayboundless

Curious if Jack Olsen was offered one?

Not sure but here's his review from RL. Good read.

Originally Posted by JackOlsen View Post
Yes. I got to spend two days with Patrick Long and one other Porsche driver (who I can't name because of NDA agreements). I got time in the car on the Weissach skid pad and also the test track -- which is a pretty scary track to drive, very technical with lots of walls that would be moved farther back if it was a commercially-used facility. But I'm happy to say I brought the car back intact, and I'm going to get to drive it again in April on a stage of the historic Tour de France Automobile hillclimb race that was originally won by a 1969 911R.

Here are my driving impressions.

Obviously, it has less downforce and narrower tires than the GT3 RS. They put a diffuser in back, but I'm not sure how functional a piece like that is in corners, where body roll compromises its function. I believe they had to make some changes to the underbody kit up front to keep front and rear axle numbers compatible. I believe there is also a different (and more 'lively') programming for the rear steering on this model -- although I haven't seen that mentioned in the official literature.

Compared to the early 911 I'm used to driving, it's a very sure-footed car. But compared to the GT3 RS, up at speed, it's a lot more lively and engaging. The differences from aero are only going to be a factor in faster corners. But the tire-size differences and (possibly) rear-steering-programming differences give it a nimbler feel even in medium-speed corners. It's something you can toss around more easily than the GT3 RS (although again, all things are relative -- by 2400-lb 1972 is another animal altogether).

I liked that it was a 6-speed and not a 7-speed manual gearbox. I believe the gearing is lower than other manual transmissions Porsche makes (although, again, that might be incorrect -- I don't see it in the official literature). There is nothing faster than the paddles in the GT3 RS. But for driving in any kind of street situation, it makes (for me, at least) a better tactile experience to be using my right hand to upshift and downshift. It auto-blips downshifts in sport mode, but you can defeat that if you want to go for the full-on old-school feel.

The weight difference between the 911R and the GT3 RS is something I'd be hard-pressed to say I felt. Both are light by contemporary standards (and also heavy, relative to the 911 I drive). But I'm very happy to see Porsche making a new model that's lighter, and I hope they make good on their talk about getting out of the horsepower arms race and finding ways to reduce the weight (and size, if all my dreams came true) of future models. Modern Porsches feel very light on the track, because of the sophistication of their suspension systems. But I'd be thrilled to see them become actually lighter. There's no substitute for reduced mass when you take a car through a corner.

So which car would I own if I had the money and an allocation? It's not easy to answer. Porsche makes it clear that it does not see the 911R as primarily a track car. I don't think the half-cage is even an option on it. And if I were going to the track with one of these cars as often as I do with my 1972 911, then the GT3 RS would be my choice. You are either faster or slower on a track, and the GT3 RS is phenomenally rewarding to drive in those conditions. The paddles just amaze you as you go up or down. Everything about the car is positive.

For recreational street driving and even trips out with your wife, the 911R would be the easy winner. It's just so much fun to drive. There's more personality to its 'tossability' and rowing through the gears on a canyon road is a fundamentally different experience than tapping paddles. And while I fully understand the value of a big wing in 80+-mph corners, it's a different experience when you pull into a restaurant, where people might (in some way) lump you with the type of drivers to bolt wings to their Civics. Having no tail looks cleaner. It shows off the lines of the car better. And my wife would probably agree to sit in it.

Along those lines, I would say that the 911R would absolutely make a viable daily driver. Granted, I drive a 1972 911 with a cage around town, so my comfort level is pretty broad. But it's comfortable, not too loud (there's an exhaust button for when you want the sound to echo off the mountains), and it hasn't been stripped out so much that it feels unsafe or flimsy. It's got all that going for it -- and then it will feel a little more nimble and driver-controllable (if that makes sense) than the GT3 RS would on ordinary roads. So again, if I was a guy who was going to go to the track once a year but drive around my favorite roads more often, the 911R would be a Porsche that would be more rewarding, for me, connecting the heritage of the old cars with the technology of the new ones.

[amg463]

waterboilers, who needs em. look back in time guys, the best cars were already made. forget modern technology.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by amg463

waterboilers, who needs em. look back in time guys, the best cars were already made. forget modern technology.

I tend to agree.

[dennywags]

If it's a drivers car then why the limited build? So more rich dbs can have excusivity? That's such bull****. If you have $200,000 for a car and are worried about value retention then GFY.

Porsche needs to quit building cabs and build more Rs.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally Posted by Jayboundless

Curious if Jack Olsen was offered one?

No such luck. But I couldn't have afforded it in any case.

I think the real benefit of this car will be in the future GT cars that will get the same transaxle and other tech. I also think Porsche shouldn't have limited the numbers on it -- I suspect that early on in the project they thought there wouldn't be much interest in a car with slower shifting and less tire and aero than the GT3 RS. The rumor was that initially, there would only be 400 or 600. But they might have underestimated the appeal of a real gearbox and the less-showy look of a car with no big wing. Hard to say. But so far, it seems to have hit a note with a lot of people.

[Mick_D]

I think the manual gearbox is the big seller. 500 hp ? oh, mmmmaaayyyybe

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by dennywags

If it's a drivers car then why the limited build? So more rich dbs can have excusivity? That's such bull****. If you have $200,000 for a car and are worried about value retention then GFY.

Porsche needs to quit building cabs and build more Rs.

Why so angry? The 911r was always intended to be a limited production vehicle. I don't remember everyone complaining this much when they released the 997 RS 4.0? Without the sales of the 911 Cab, Cayenne and Macan, Porsche wouldn't have the funds to produce these limited GT/RS vehicles.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Jack Olsen

But so far, it seems to have hit a note with a lot of people.

Yeah, a pissed off note. It's a popular concept that a lot of people have been clamoring for. I think it's great that Porsche built the car at all in this day and age but it shouldn't have been a limited edition model (like they need another one of those...).

Don't call it an "R" and make it as widely available as any other 991 model.

[dennywags]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Why so angry? The 911r was always intended to be a limited production vehicle. I don't remember everyone complaining this much when they released the 997 RS 4.0? Without the sales of the 911 Cab, Cayenne and Macan, Porsche wouldn't have the funds to produce these limited GT/RS vehicles.

Not angry just frustrated.

And I meant to type so many cabs.

And I have no problem with Cayennes and Macans. I am actually planning to buy a Macan S.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by dennywags

Not angry just frustrated.

And I meant to type so many cabs.

And I have no problem with Cayennes and Macans. I am actually planning to buy a Macan S.

The good news is that they are putting the 6spd in the next generation GT3. Get on a list quickly or you will miss the boat if you want one at MSRP.

The Next Porsche 911 GT3 Is Getting An Actual Six-Speed Manual Gearbox

[dennywags]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

The good news is that they are putting the 6spd in the next generation GT3. Get on a list quickly or you will miss the boat if you want one at MSRP.

The Next Porsche 911 GT3 Is Getting An Actual Six-Speed Manual Gearbox

This makes me happy.