The problem with that is you are asking someone to predict the future. If you had asked 3 years ago, or even 2 years ago, whether a 912 was a good investment in a vintage car most would have laughed at you. Who is the expert that determines these things that all would trust as knowing enough to be the benchmark for all of us?

When I bought my 67 912 I was pretty sure I wasn't going to lose any money on it. But I didn't really have an expectation to make more than a 50% profit on the thing by the time I sold it. I doubt anyone would have.

Why does it cost $10-12,000 to rebuild a 912 motor?? They are really a Type 1 Bug motor. Just a little bit different.

Porsche tax?

Most of it is labor and machine shop work. Maybe the VW mechanics charge $50/hr while the Porsche mechanics are charging $125/hr.

To do it right, every single one needs the crank turned or a new crank. They need the rods balanced. They need the valve guides replaced and the spark plug holes welded up. They need the cylinders refurbished or replaced. The list goes on and on.

Go get a real bid on a 2.7 911 engine these days. $15k all day long.

Why spend that kind of coin on a rebuild when crate 912 engines can be had for around $500.00?!?!?!



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That's hysterical.

Speaking of muscle cars, while we are chatting about 912s, I started this thread on Fchat. By chance does anyone have a 912/911 they would trade for a 1965 GT350-R recreation?
[For Sale] 1965 Ford Mustang GT350-R Recreation - FerrariChat.com

Hijacked my own post. I listed the 912 for Dennis on Pelican this afternoon, sold in about .5 seconds. Headed for the Bay Area. Glad that worked out. Still on the hunt for the next one.

I know the 912 motor is a little different than a Type ! motor but you still have to do all that stuff on a Bug motor rebuild. And it is still a tiny 75-90 HP motor. Same skill lever as a Bug. $12,000? That would be stealing.

I wonder if the 356 crowd *****es about that?

MattR

type 1 vw P/c's are about $300
356 P/c's are about $2,200.
There is a huge difference in part cost between VW and Porsche.

Comparing a Porsche engine to a VW engine is like comparing a Nascar engine to a run of the SBC, they are similar in layout but quit a bit different in important details and about $20,000

There are no repro cases, carbs or heads. Main bearings run $500 - $600. You can buy cheap P&C sets but lots of other the other parts are quite expensive. I don't think you can buy an aftermarket set of rods or a crank for under $1200 ea.

I had a '55 Oval window Bug that had a built 1776cc with dual carbs - and it smoked the '63 356 I once had. You can still get a tremendous value out of a VW engine - even if built right with all the right stuff.

I saw that in the marketplace.

I think someone got a steal on that car.

Good luck with your search.

Wow. But it really looked like a nice car. I don't know when I saw a soft window that looked that nice. Still big money compared to four years ago, but that's the game I guess.

I think Steve will be very happy with the car, just needs a good detail, fresh tires and apply for one of the black license plates then enjoy. I have to do that for my 66. Just need to figure out the right sequence of letters for the car. There is probably a post somewhere on that.

OK the Porsche parts are more expensive but the skill level to rebuild one is the same . A good VW mechanic should be able to do it no problem. I think I would just remove the 356 motor and install a nice built 1800 cc type 1 motor for a fraction of the cost and keep the 356 motor. That would be a fun 912!

Ficke, I owned a 356b for ten years. I have also owned many mid 60's Bugs. Both cars would do 0-60 in about 18 seconds. So NASCAR they are not! They are all slow Bugs!

Now, why didn't Porsche think of that ?




....



Wait a minute, they already did.

Porsche 914?

When 356 Cs were $10k cars we put 912 engines in them all day long. It's part of why there are so many cars without their original engine. Buy a wrecked 912 at auction for $2500. Put the engine into a 356, parts and labor, $4000. Free everything else that fits on a 901 chassis.

The Type 1 had a great motor! I had so much fun with my old VW Bugs. My favorites were the mid 60's cars. But I did have a cool 1959 Bug European model with half the headliner. Other half was painted metal. and it had a large VW steering wheel that was stock but very different. I loved old VW Bugs! That is why I have a 911 today. And it smells the very same!!! ( and same dome lights).

Nick, cost of rebuilding engines is not related to just HP.
and neither is the value of a car related to just the HP of the car, contrary to what Ronnie thinks SmileWavy.
I was using NASCAR as an example of hugely more money engine but not much more HP. and really not the same as a SBC it is based off, Like a Porsche to VW engine.

I understand Ficke but $12,000 is just a joke. I bet I could get it done for half. It's still just a little upright. I loved my 356 BTW. But 75 HP was just not enough for me. Now they are left to the millionaires.

People that pay big money to buy or build low horsepower Porsches are definitely chemically imbalanced (not in a good way, either, and shart)! :D Chump change for chump cars is how the cosmos SHOULD operate!!!

How stressed can a 1.6L engine be when it's generating 75 HP ?

Surely, it can't be that difficult rebuilding with modern components.

Max, the stresses on the engine and the level of difficulty to rebuild one really has nothing to do with the costs. Part of it is the "low production" factor, but the primary reason for the high costs is that like other "high performance" companies (Lambo, Ferrari, Ducati, Aprillia, etc.), Porsche figured out long ago that owners will willingly grab their ankles and open their wallets when it comes time for parts and repairs. Porsche charges so much for parts, and shops that work on them charge such high rates, because they can get away with doing so. The same is true in the world of aviation; the consumer has established a pattern of accepting the absurdity.

.. and Pelican Parts was conceived and grew as a business to ease that pain.

I wish Mr Dempsey would go back to his air cooled Porsche roots (and first love) and reboot, release , rewrite , update or whatever his current body of air cooled 911 work, instead of expanding his universe to BMWs, MBs :confused: etc etc

I'm sure there has been lots of exciting updates and new info since 2003 when the last version of his books was released. How about some videos or workshops etc etc ?

Mr Dempsey ?

Do you own the last version of Anderson's Handbook that was published in the final days of his life? Bruce added a lot of updated and improved information.

The thing about Wayne's project book is that the actual steps to do the projects haven't really changed. Maybe there's a few more expensive and upgraded reproduction parts that have come out since then. But Wayne's how to books were largely to allow a DIY guy to understand how to do the job without paying the professionals and without spending thousands on the factory shop manuals. And he gives you hacks when he can that avoid having to buy special factory tools.

I think things like his Boxster book are pretty much the same thing for the newer cars. It really does fit his business model quite well.

No. I only have the 101 and Bentley.

Books might be fine for 101 type projects but not for more advanced work like rebuilding. That's why I suggested he expand the body of work to other forms of media. Make a series of how-to videos, for example.

Sure, what makes sense for the business. Hence my appeal to his roots and all that. At some point, that's what matters the most, what one enjoys doing. I haven't looked at his other guide books but I bet those will be irrelevant within 10-20 years.

he will be very happy with the profit on the flip... it's "coming soon" on his site. curious to see the $ ask, may be time to think about letting my 67 softie go.

Not necessarily.
Some "gentleman" offered me $30k on my '64C coupe because it has an unstamped case and is not matching numbers. Of course bottom feeders don't set the market and he was clearly trying to take advantage of an uninformed seller. :)