Salvage title - value

[DE47]

What's anybody's thoughts on what/how much a reconstruction/salvage title does to a Porsche. A Salvage title can even be issued to a stolen car with zero damage. Assuming a car is as clean as a similar model with a clean title what would a rebuilt/salvage title discount the price?

[Matt Monson]

Depends on the Porsche. 1999 996 or 1959 356 are two very different answers

[DE47]

Very true. What about cars in the middle? SCs.

[Cornerlot]

I've delt with late model domestic stuff, and "Rebuilt" (not salvage) title devalue resale by 1/3 if done well. Poor rebuilds are 1/2 reduced. Either way, they are tough to find a buyer for due to the stigma attached.

[techweenie]

Understanding that there are people who would pay no more than "parts price" for such a car, those open to buying the car for itself would likely be at 25% under the price of the comparable 'clean title' car.

The older the car, the less the impact.

[DE47]

I was thinking somewhere between 25% and 40% below the value of a clean title car. It seems that even if the car is done well and a nice driver you just won't see any real appreciation for another 10 years on an 80s car. Maybe 70s not so important. 90s and 00's far longer to ever see any value increase.

[GG Allin]

I had an RS America ten years ago with a salvage title. The car had frame damage from a bad wreck. Bought and sold it for about 55% of the normal market value at the time.

It was a fantastic car.

[Unobtanium-inc]

A 1/3 off the market value is a good rule of thumb, but it can be a hard car to sell, even at the discount. It is very hard to get a loan on a car with salvage history so you knock out all those buyers, and surprisingly a lot of guys go to their credit union to get the money to buy a Porsche. What you have to remember when you buy a salvage title car is that the deal you got when you bought it is the exact same deal you have to give the next guy when you sell it. The problem I usually see with salvage/re-built/reconstructed cars is that the guy's who get the deal when they buy it over time attribute the super deal to how smart they are, not to the value of the car and when it's time to sell try to shrug off the stigma and importance of the history, usually to little effect. The market always speaks, even if the seller doesn't like what it has to say.
The best time to buy a car with salvage history is when you plan to drive the wheels off of it. Like a work truck or a commuter car, because when you go to sell the car it will be close to worthless anyway based on condition and miles driven, so the salvage paper is not nearly as important.
The 993 I just bought was re-built in the early 2000's, I knew that before I bought it and if I ever go to sell it, I'll remember it.


---Adam

[timchar]

^^ Good advice... Tim

[DE47]

Thank you for your thoughts everyone. Now we'll see how it applies in the real world on Monday.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by DE47

What's anybody's thoughts on what/how much a reconstruction/salvage title does to a Porsche. A Salvage title can even be issued to a stolen car with zero damage. Assuming a car is as clean as a similar model with a clean title what would a rebuilt/salvage title discount the price?

I just re-read your original post and I've never heard of a stolen car without damage getting a salvage title. I've been to hundreds of auctions for salvage cars and while the stolen ones always look way better than the balled up wrecked ones, there is always a reason the insurance company paid off on the car. Personally I would rather have a fixed wrecked car than a stolen one, at least a wrecked Porsche may not have been red-lined in every gear, but you know the stolen one was. Why steal a Porsche and not red-line it?

---Adam

[DE47]

I totally agree that a stolen Porsche most likely would have been driven hard otherwise why the saying, "Drive it like you stole it!"? Of course I can't imagine stealing a Porsche without wrecking it in the process or taking value pieces from it.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by DE47

I totally agree that a stolen Porsche most likely would have been driven hard otherwise why the saying, "Drive it like you stole it!"? Of course I can't imagine stealing a Porsche without wrecking it in the process or taking value pieces from it.

I asked one of the old salvage guys one time about stolen cars that were found not stripped and he said he talked to the cops about it once and apparently the thieves would park them on normal roads or a parking garage for a few days after they stole them to make sure they didn't have Lo-Jack, before they brought them back to their lair for stripping, a cooling off period, as it were. But every once in a while the car was found during this period and since it was already reported stolen the cops scooped it up.

---Adam

[DE47]

I greatly appreciate your knowledge on this Adam.

Back to the original post (and point). What if you found an 80s SC without any evidence of damage (and no way of finding out why it has a salvage title) and is in comparable condition to a clean SC with a clean title. How much less? 1/3?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by DE47

I greatly appreciate your knowledge on this Adam.

Back to the original post (and point). What if you found an 80s SC without any evidence of damage (and no way of finding out why it has a salvage title) and is in comparable condition to a clean SC with a clean title. How much less? 1/3?

If there isn't any evidence of salvage history I would go with the 1/3 de-value, but like I said before they can be slow movers if you need to ever sell it quick, smaller pool of buyers. So if you are one to periodically liquidate assets a salvage title vehicle can be a not wise decision. But if you want the car for your collection and are ok with the salvage papers and will enjoy the car, then buy away. Like one of the other posters said, the older the car gets the less it matters, so if you plan to hold the car for a long time the damage will be minimized over time. The 993 I just bought has salvage history from around 2000, and was given a reconstructed title. I paid $5000 for it running so I wasn't too worried about it and I plan to keep it and autocross it.
One thing you didn't mention though, does it have a re-built title, or is it still a salvage title? If there is no damage and it still has a salvage title you may never get it titled. The reason is when you fix the car and get it inspected by the state to get a new title you have to show receipts for all the work as well as before and after pics, if you can't show this they may not clear the car. They do this to prevent people from using stolen parts to fix salvage cars and so they can see what the damage was. A lot of times you will see dealers selling a fixed car that still has a salvage title, they will say things in their ad like, "I've been driving this car for a year." but what they aren't telling you is that they slapped their dealer plates on the car, they never actually tried to register it, because you can't register it with a salvage title. Be careful, it's real easy to get screwed on a salvage car.
Good luck!

[wayner]

In Ontario if it was due to flood damage, the car cannot be registered for road use again.

If it is rebuilt from a wreck, and certified it can be (unless it is a motorcycle in wchich case those cannot be registered for road use again regardless of circumstance)

[pnut_lee]

When a car is paid off by an insurance company (before being recovered) it is considered a loss. In most states this results in a branded title, so yes a perfectly fine, undamaged recovered theft car can and do have salvage / rebuilt titles.

[Matt Monson]

My 74 is a theft recovery S title. While there aren't great details to it since it happened over 20 years ago, it appears that is when it lost the original engine and gearbox. Instead of a 2.7 it has a 3.2 and an SC tranny.

[lsenno]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I asked one of the old salvage guys one time about stolen cars that were found not stripped and he said he talked to the cops about it once and apparently the thieves would park them on normal roads or a parking garage for a few days after they stole them to make sure they didn't have Lo-Jack, before they brought them back to their lair for stripping, a cooling off period, as it were. But every once in a while the car was found during this period and since it was already reported stolen the cops scooped it up.

---Adam

It's unlikely that the insurance company would have paid off the owner in the week or two since it was stolen.

The likelihood of a salvaged title stolen car sitting long enough to be paid but not accumulate any damages is low.

Salvage and rebuilt titles vary by state so you also need to check what each means in whatever state the vehicle has been titled in.

Lastly you might also want to consider that some insurance companies will only allow liability coverage.

[bhmkv]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I just re-read your original post and I've never heard of a stolen car without damage getting a salvage title. I've been to hundreds of auctions for salvage cars and while the stolen ones always look way better than the balled up wrecked ones, there is always a reason the insurance company paid off on the car. Personally I would rather have a fixed wrecked car than a stolen one, at least a wrecked Porsche may not have been red-lined in every gear, but you know the stolen one was. Why steal a Porsche and not red-line it?

---Adam

Insurance companies have to pay out for the car if not found in a certain amount of time. If the car is later found the insurance company now owns the car since they paid the value to the insured. If found often it ends with a salvage title. I've been an appraiser for about ten years. I've seen brand new 50+k trucks with a broken window and ignition sitting in the salvage yard. Someone gets a great deal on the salvage car.