BEWARE if you live in Indiana bureaucrats are trying to take your right to drive your

[93097004xx]

What else... Emissions!!

Yes they are taking a tragedy and using it as a means to create yet another bureaucracy for taxation and making it impossible to drive old cars.

They already have 70,000 signatures.

It's time we in the collector car community band together to stop this nonsense before it becomes a albatross we will never overcome.

There is more money in this hobby than any other hobby. Probably enough money that it rivals some small country's gross domestic product. We should have no problem overcoming these bureaucrats.


https://www.change.org/p/pass-savannah-s-law

[KNS]

Sad story related to the issue at hand but perhaps if the guy maintained his car and its exhaust system those two might be alive today.

A buddy of mine had an old Alfa Romeo with a leak in the exhaust manifold and I once owned a crappy Datsun with a similar leak (a coworker nicknamed it the "Dachau Datsun"). There was no mistaking either one had exhaust leaking into the cabin from the headaches we'd get and the wiff of exhaust.
However, I know it is possible to have an undetected leak into the cabin. You just need to stay on top of it, maybe more so in the rust belt.

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by KNS

Sad story related to the issue at hand but perhaps if the guy maintained his car and its exhaust system those two might be alive today.

A buddy of mine had an old Alfa Romeo with a leak in the exhaust manifold and I once owned a crappy Datsun with a similar leak (a coworker nicknamed it the "Dachau Datsun"). There was no mistaking either one had exhaust leaking into the cabin from the headaches we'd get and the wiff of exhaust.
However, I know it is possible to have an undetected leak into the cabin. You just need to stay on top of it, maybe more so in the rust belt.

We don't need another government agency.

And these kids dying does not constitute another government agency.

There are not that many old cars on the road anyhow.

This only threatens the collector car community.

[SalParadise]

They are not even tackling the issue. The issue is common sense.

I recently moved to the Chicago area from California. I grew up on the east coast before heading to college out west.

Coming to Illinois I have never, ever in my life seen such automobiles and trucks in such blatant disrepair. It's almost a badge of honor to have your rockers and fender lips completely rusted out. And on top of this, I've seen exhaust rusted to the point of dragging (everyday) - and I've seen it myriad times and even informed the owners, most blew me off or simply got angry at me for pointing it out.

A carbon leak doesn't happen by accident. Just like it doesn't in a home. There are basic things people must maintain for their own safety.

Sorry, but her boyfriend was probably driving an American-made rusted-out s**tbox and they are trying to make sense of it.

Everyone on this board would probably never let their car get to this point. We would fix it - and we would fix it even if we were young (I know I did)..

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

They are not even tackling the issue. The issue is common sense.



I recently moved to the Chicago area from California. I grew up on the east coast before heading to college out west.



Coming to Illinois I have never, ever in my life seen such automobiles and trucks in such blatant disrepair. It's almost a badge of honor to have your rockers and fender lips completely rusted out. And on top of this, I've seen exhaust rusted to the point of dragging (everyday) - and I've seen it myriad times and even informed the owners, most blew me off or simply got angry at me for pointing it out.



A carbon leak doesn't happen by accident. Just like it doesn't in a home. There are basic things people must maintain for their own safety.



Sorry, but her boyfriend was probably driving an American-made rusted-out s**tbox and they are trying to make sense of it.



Everyone on this board would probably never let their car get to this point. We would fix it - and we would fix it even if we were young (I know I did)..

Emissions testing on air cooled engines.. Come on you know the outcome.

Rebuilding engines every 10,000 miles

Running oversized tires

Running the engine dangerously lean just to pass the TEST.

They never seem to get the law exemptions right.

I commonly see 1967 and older exempt.. It should be 1985 and older..

How many 1985 and older cars a running around now days? None.

Except collector cars. It's crazy but the only cars being emissions tested from 1985 and down are collector cars.

Again bureaucrats after our hobby again.

[techweenie]

Um, we have emissions testing in CA, affecting cars back to 1975. And there are one or two older cars being legally driven on the roads here. Not sure if testing to 10 years back is going to destroy your rights in IL. But we've muddled through.

[matt930s]

OT.

MattR

[93097004xx]

Your missing the point of all this.. this law seeks to ELIMINATE THE ROLLING 25 YEAR LAW that MOST ALL STATES currently have..

Well hmm.. what kind of cars are still on the road after 25 years... but our cars.. COLLECTOR CARS are still on the road 25,35,55 years later.

Modern cars 2006 and up hardly produce C.O. If they really only cared about C.O. They would keep the 25 year rolling rule and leave the collector car hobby alone.

[Matt Monson]

Meh. Colorado lost the rolling law a few years ago. It was done after roadside testing stations determined a lot of people were using the collector plate law to hide and keep driving gross polluters. We've got a ton of mid 80s f150s and suburbans and dualies, etc that are NOT collector cars that had collector plates. Was a good change and the visible smog over Denver has been reduced as a result.

Let's just start using steam engines and burn coal. Trump and the coal miners would approve.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Meh. Colorado lost the rolling law a few years ago. It was done after roadside testing stations determined a lot of people were using the collector plate law to hide and keep driving gross polluters. We've got a ton of mid 80s f150s and suburbans and dualies, etc that are NOT collector cars that had collector plates. Was a good change and the visible smog over Denver has been reduced as a result.

Let's just start using steam engines and burn coal. Trump and the coal miners would approve.

Just looked at Colorado as well and did not know that they had the 1975 and older cut off for no testing like California. Looks like midyear '74s and '75s win again....

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Meh. Colorado lost the rolling law a few years ago. It was done after roadside testing stations determined a lot of people were using the collector plate law to hide and keep driving gross polluters. We've got a ton of mid 80s f150s and suburbans and dualies, etc that are NOT collector cars that had collector plates. Was a good change and the visible smog over Denver has been reduced as a result.

Let's just start using steam engines and burn coal. Trump and the coal miners would approve.

Maybe I read this wrong but looks like it's just eight counties that require emissions testing in Colorado.


Yes Denver is the only city in Colorado that emissions test..

The AIR program..

Don't take this the wrong way but.. That must be a city run by liberal bureaucrats.

[Menmojo]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

Your missing the point of all this.. this law seeks to ELIMINATE THE ROLLING 25 YEAR LAW that MOST ALL STATES currently have..

Well hmm.. what kind of cars are still on the road after 25 years... but our cars.. COLLECTOR CARS are still on the road 25,35,55 years later.

Modern cars 2006 and up hardly produce C.O. If they really only cared about C.O. They would keep the 25 year rolling rule and leave the collector car hobby alone.

+1. Spot on.

[SalParadise]

So my question is, they are going to start emissions testing everything, even if it didn't have emissions in the first place?

How is this going to work?

They need to test their head and check the basic mechanical condition of the car. Many states still have vehicle inspection (Pennsylvania is very tough - you have to get your car inspected periodically).

[speednme1]

My heart goes out to the family of the girl that passed away but this makes no sense. Had he had bald tires and slid off the road and crashed with a tragic end, should a law be created to check every tire of every car and truck that is on the road for tire tread height? Unfortunately when tragedy strikes most in mourning want nothing more than to hold someone or something accountable. I understand it, I just don't agree with it.

[dporsche74]

its called prgress....
Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican
By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.


Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

So my question is, they are going to start emissions testing everything, even if it didn't have emissions in the first place?



How is this going to work?



They need to test their head and check the basic mechanical condition of the car. Many states still have vehicle inspection (Pennsylvania is very tough - you have to get your car inspected periodically).

They want to.. problem is WE HAVE NO LOBBY. There're SO MANY people with DEEP POCKETS in the collector car community. It's time we get something similar to the NRA to protect the future of collecting, owning and driving these cars.

Look at states like Utah, California there are no exemptions to the collector car community. Lots of collector cars simply can't be driven there.

This is a hagerty article from 8 years ago. Things are starting to go the wrong way or have already in cities like Denver, states like Utah, California.

"It has been proven that testing collectible cars provides little to no measurable benefit to the environment: There simply aren’t enough of them out there, they are usually well maintained and they are used relatively infrequently. Therefore, most states provide some type of exemption specific to older cars."

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2009/12/02/emissions-and-your-collector-vehicle

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by dporsche74

its called prgress....
Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican
By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.


Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.

Anyone who truly feels that way most likely has no business in this hobby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

Anyone who truly feels that way most likely has no business in this hobby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only fools side with only one side, any human being in their right mind can be both liberal and conservative just depends on the personal issue. This hobby is wide and open to all.

The subject at hand is an overreaction to a tragedy. Some tragedies deserve policy changes, others on the other hand require common sense.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by dporsche74

its called prgress....
Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican
By John Gray Cincinnati, Ohio

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.


Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.

This is exactly the kind of closed minded, one sided claptrap that has divided the country and the parties and gotten us to a ridiculous stalemate in government. Liberal? Conservative? Socialist? Independent? Listen to your peers instead of spouting off at the mouth.

Let's stick to Porsches.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

Maybe I read this wrong but looks like it's just eight counties that require emissions testing in Colorado.


Yes Denver is the only city in Colorado that emissions test..

The AIR program..

Don't take this the wrong way but.. That must be a city run by liberal bureaucrats.

Look at Colorado's population demographics. You say just 8 counties, but what percentage of the state's population lives in those 8 counties?

Look at Weld County for example. It has the largest land footprint of any county in the state but only 270k of our 5.6 million people live there.

They have crafted a system that effectively and efficiently gets the vast majority of vehicles. We are actually a pretty fiscally conservative state and this program is part of how that plays out. They weren't going to spend tens of millions of dollars on building testing centers out in the middle of nowhere when there's nobody there to be tested.

Furthermore, it's not like a 1978 911SC gets tested by 2017 vehicle standards. The cars have to run as cleanly as they did when new, not as cleanly as a new car. The problem vehicles in the collector community tend to be the ones in the smog pump years like my old 76 912E. They actually expect you to have the smog pump in place and functioning even though we've subsequently found such device have nearly no impact on emissions and a single modern cat would make the car plenty clean for the tailpipe test. Some of the laws are bassakwards, but I personally would rather there be something than nothing. We've got an ozone alert day here in Denver today. Stay indoors if you have asthma or allergies because while things are much better than they were we've still got air issues here. I think the rights of everyone to breathe are more important than someone to drive a 40 year old car.