Motor damaged during shipping opinion wanted

[NYNick]

"Not knowing any qualified mechanics at the time and the seller was proclaiming to be an expert so I solicited him to see if he was interested in addressing the head studs. $9800 later my motor was ready to ship. I’m in it $22,800 at this point."

Maybe it's just me, but this seems kinda dumb (sorry, Nathan). Don't you restore cars or something for a living? Who does your engine work?

You're into a engine you've never seen, to a guy you've never met, for $23K? Very trusting of you. I get that the engine got damaged through no fault of your own and you didn't get delivered what you paid for, but I never would've had some unknown shop (unknown to me that is) reman an engine for me in the first place.

Maybe my money is more important to me than others, but here's another example where I would be down at the shop often checking on the progress of my project/engine.

JMHO

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

It’s the cost to repair the damages that’s the issue. I have a quote for well over $10k. Would you be happy to have it if you paid $23k? Especially for a motor without scratches when you made the deal? Not at fault for merely screwing a 300+ lb motor with wood screws? Two ratchet straps on a bare pallet without wood blocks and without screws would have limited the damage to the valve cover.

Someone is bending you over with no lube with that quote. Don't take it from behind a second time before you are healed.

I suppose you aren't using collapsible tubes because it doesn't look original? Even then you are getting hosed on the repair and if I were the builder of this engine I would laugh when you presented me with a $10k Bill.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

How do you figure a grand or two? To install the oil return tubes it’s quite a bit of labor as the heads I think have to come off the one side I believe? What value do you put on the gouged case?


The determining factor is the warranty, they craftily determined that there was no long term warranty which rendered the motor “used”. The tariff/freight refs allow I think $5/lb for new engines.

Show me the quote. I don't see how this exceeds 15 hours work and the builder's provided parts.
You paid ten grand for this work and you didn't get a warranty? You are a very trusting man. I wouldn't buy any rebuild job that didn't have one.

[Unobtanium-inc]

This is why when I sell an engine I crate it for FREE. My crates have gone all over the world and never failed. Why the guy would charge you $23,000 and not think to crate it insane. That's like ordering fine china and asking the saleperson to frisbee it to you one plate at a time.
If anyone wants to see how to build a proper crate, you can follow my how to. The article is for a 356 motor, but you can use the same plans and make it a little bigger for a 911 motor.

https://porsche356registry.org/article/26

---Adam

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by NYNick

"Not knowing any qualified mechanics at the time and the seller was proclaiming to be an expert so I solicited him to see if he was interested in addressing the head studs. $9800 later my motor was ready to ship. I’m in it $22,800 at this point."

Maybe it's just me, but this seems kinda dumb (sorry, Nathan). Don't you restore cars or something for a living? Who does your engine work?

You're into a engine you've never seen, to a guy you've never met, for $23K? Very trusting of you. I get that the engine got damaged through no fault of your own and you didn't get delivered what you paid for, but I never would've had some unknown shop (unknown to me that is) reman an engine for me in the first place.

Maybe my money is more important to me than others, but here's another example where I would be down at the shop often checking on the progress of my project/engine.

JMHO

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Show me the quote. I don't see how this exceeds 15 hours work and the builder's provided parts.
You paid ten grand for this work and you didn't get a warranty? You are a very trusting man. I wouldn't buy any rebuild job that didn't have one.

In hindsight totally dumb and way too trusting. I literally didn’t know a single porsche mechanic, now I know 5 that I would choose from. It was across the map so I couldn’t check on it. His credentials sounded solid and he’s a friendly, knowledgeable member around here so it seems. The work verbally was to be $3000-4000 according to math but it ended up $9800. I now know anything you do on a motor seems to start at $10k. I have a single broken head stud on another 3.0 and the shop owner said expect to spend $10k. Needless to say I took it and I’m driving it. Back to the $9800 he did a lot of work and spent a lot of money so it seems that besides not expecting, and not being warned that the cost would be that high it was fair. Not the issue or complaint here. I wish it was

[Matt Monson]

People really have no clue how to pack things. I bought a crank recently. It showed up like this. You can see before you open the box the crank was rolling around inside it. In addition to the Saran Wrap there was a single piece of batting wrapped around it it wasn’t even taped in place. The crank rolled out of the batting and shipped cross country with nothing but cardboard between it and the world.




The seller claims he packed it well.

[nathanbs]

I appreciate all of your responses and feel like I got my answer and it’s what I thought, that regardless of insurance it should have been packed WAY better. Who wants to argue their way through a claim anyways. Now hopefully the seller and I can work out an agreeable solution.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

People really have no clue how to pack things. I bought a crank recently. It showed up like this. You can see before you open the box the crank was rolling around inside it. In addition to the Saran Wrap there was a single piece of batting wrapped around it it wasn’t even taped in place. The crank rolled out of the batting and shipped cross country with nothing but cardboard between it and the world.




The seller claims he packed it well.

Ridiculous

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

In hindsight totally dumb and way too trusting. I literally didn’t know a single porsche mechanic, now I know 5 that I would choose from. It was across the map so I couldn’t check on it. His credentials sounded solid and he’s a friendly, knowledgeable member around here so it seems. The work verbally was to be $3000-4000 according to math but it ended up $9800. I now know anything you do on a motor seems to start at $10k. I have a single broken head stud on another 3.0 and the shop owner said expect to spend $10k. Needless to say I took it and I’m driving it. Back to the $9800 he did a lot of work and spent a lot of money so it seems that besides not expecting, and not being warned that the cost would be that high it was fair. Not the issue or complaint here. I wish it was

You misunderstood my comment. I want to know how the repair exceeds 15 hours.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I've been laughed at over the years for crating engines for free. My attitude is a broken engine does no one any good, so why risk it. Knowing buyers if I told them it was $300-400 (that's my cost by the way) to crate an engine many would say no, just strap it to a pallet. Then when it gets damaged who wins? Nobody.

As a result I've sold hundreds of motors that have gone all over the world and not one has arrived damaged. Don't get cheap with expensive things, just don't.

---Adam

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You misunderstood my comment. I want to know how the repair exceeds 15 hours.

Which? the estimate to replace the oil tubes, cam cover, oil cooler, sump plate? Or do you mean the original repair of the broken head studs? I don’t have the new one handy, but I’m pretty certain the one that was well over $10k was for fedex and included a new case. If I recall that was about $18-22k I will double check on Monday. To be clear this is not the amount I’m asking for from the seller. I want $10k if he wants to settle for cash as that includes parts, repair labor and diminished value of my engine case.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Which? the estimate to replace the oil tubes, cam cover, oil cooler, sump plate? Or do you mean the original repair of the broken head studs? I don’t have the new one handy, but I’m pretty certain the one that was well over $10k was for fedex and included a new case. If I recall that was about $18-22k I will double check on Monday. To be clear this is not the amount I’m asking for from the seller. I want $10k if he wants to settle for cash as that includes parts, repair labor and diminished value of my engine case.

See bold. The estimate to repair the damages that happened during shipping.

[nathanbs]

I haven’t even talked to or asked the mechanic for a bare bones estimate as we were focused on the fedex claim. I suspect without replacing the case and oil cooler perhaps $4-5k parts and labor.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I haven’t even talked to or asked the mechanic for a bare bones estimate as we were focused on the fedex claim. I suspect without replacing the case and oil cooler perhaps $4-5k parts and labor.

Oh, $10k is what you feel you are due. It's not what it would cost to make you whole.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Oh, $10k is what you feel you are due. It's not what it would cost to make you whole.

Correct it’s what I think is fair aka “due”. To make me whole it would require a new engine case

[Matt Monson]

You need to be realistic. You aren't going to get it. You are asking the seller to rebuild your engine for you for free. Your demand letter is super aggressive and likely why the seller hasn't replied. The reality of situations like this is that unless you are willing to sue the guy, you have to figure out some compromise number that you both can live with. Backing the guy into the corner like you did will likely only result is added resistance and push back. People are like Chinese handcuffs and if you want to slip out of this mess you need to be a bit more gentle.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You need to be realistic. You aren't going to get it. You are asking the seller to rebuild your engine for you for free. Your demand letter is super aggressive and likely why the seller hasn't replied. The reality of situations like this is that unless you are willing to sue the guy, you have to figure out some compromise number that you both can live with. Backing the guy into the corner like you did will likely only result is added resistance and push back. People are like Chinese handcuffs and if you want to slip out of this mess you need to be a bit more gentle.

Why do I need to be anything? I want what I paid for. I will sue no problem. My offer is more than reasonable as I still will have a f’d up engine case. I would prefer my money back solves everything. No arguing, no bickering, no dickering. Easy solution for me. If I was in his shoes the refund would have already been made. Been there done that, learned from my mistakes when I did not properly pack.

[nathanbs]

Why shouldn’t he redo the work for free? He’s the one that made the mistake. No one else.

[nathanbs]

Matt what would you do for your customer if you were the seller and you made this mistake?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Why do I need to be anything? I want what I paid for. I will sue no problem. My offer is more than reasonable as I still will have a f’d up engine case. I would prefer my money back solves everything. No arguing, no bickering, no dickering. Easy solution for me. If I was in his shoes the refund would have already been made. Been there done that, learned from my mistakes when I did not properly pack.

Remember my kill the messenger comment the other day? I'm not your enemy. I'm not taking the builder's side. I am advising you on how you are most likely to reach detente. I always say the thing about free advice on the internet is you are free to ignore it. I wish you the best but I don't think you are going to get what you think you are owed.