Motor damaged during shipping opinion wanted

[nathanbs]

Matt what would you do for your customer? What would you do if you were me and you forked over $23k for a part to go on a concourse level restoration and it arrived damaged? Honestly the only way to make me whole is a whole new engine or all of my money back and with that I’ve still lost almost a year of my life and the car won’t be completed for that much longer

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Really lousy deal, Nathan, and like other's have mentioned, amazingly poor packaging from the seller. A few years ago, I sold an engine for an experimental aircraft (engine weighed less than 100 pounds), and boxed it in a manner that it would have survived a shipwreck.

Yep, pretty big job to replace the oil return tubes. If it were me, I would use collapsible ones without hesitation (no shame in those, other than they are not what you paid for).

You've probably thought of this, but you could really clean up the gouging on the case by smoothing them out (with Dremmel, hand files, and sand paper) and then re-aging the spots with a chemical such as Navel Jelly.

It looks like the oil cooler is toast - might not leak now, but probably would in short order - not cheap.

[Matt Monson]

Nathan,
What I would do is irrelevant for a number of reasons, but in large part because I would never find myself in this position. Given your stance you need an attorney. Seriously. If there is no middle ground you can live with you need to sue the guy if he won't give you exactly what you want.

[dwelle]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Nathan,
What I would do is irrelevant for a number of reasons, but in large part because I would never find myself in this position. Given your stance you need an attorney. Seriously. If there is no middle ground you can live with you need to sue the guy if he won't give you exactly what you want.

and in doing so, you're not likely to end up "whole" at $10K because of the costs associated with going that route.

and then two more members of our esteemed (and very small) community who will be at odds. the fallout never ends that way.

nobody wins in this scenario. you're going to take a hit no matter what happens. might be time to ask yourself what your time is worth. not to mention the grief you'll nurse along during the process AND after the resolution which you likely won't like.

unfortunate but true...

[christiandk]

The seller is an ******* and you should have made arrangements so that this did not happen. When you rely on other people **** happens. You were sloppy.

Move on - you are throwing good time after bad time - engine looks ok.

Good luck with the project.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by dwelle

and in doing so, you're not likely to end up "whole" at $10K because of the costs associated with going that route.

and then two more members of our esteemed (and very small) community who will be at odds. the fallout never ends that way.

nobody wins in this scenario. you're going to take a hit no matter what happens. might be time to ask yourself what your time is worth. not to mention the grief you'll nurse along during the process AND after the resolution which you likely won't like.

unfortunate but true...

Yep. A fair question to ask me would what would I do if I were the buyer. What I would do is what I suggested. I would go get a real repair quote, in writing, from a local builder. I would give the seller the opportunity to provide all needed parts for the repair at their cost along with my labor costs and +/-$1000 "diminished value" as he puts it.

Both the request that he take it back for a refund or he find another C3 case to replace the marred one are unrealistic. Plus this C3 case is nowhere near worthless with the cosmetic damage.

I will reiterate what I have said before. Act like a pissed off dick at someone and they will respond dickishly. Being right doesn't matter when you abuse someone in your righteousness. Be a decent human being and you will usually have someone who is decent and reasonable in return. Flash a knife at a guy and he's going to put up a shield because he feels he needs to protect himself. It's the way the world works.

Life is too short for me to walk around pissed off all the time with raised blood pressure losing sleep, etc. I was really pissed when I got that engine years ago. Today I don't care and have even opened a wholesale account selling to the guy I got that engine from.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

To solve this from turning into me trying to get a carrera motor for half price I would prefer just to either have it fixed or paid to be fixed or all of my money back. I’m not trying to profit.
No the motor has not been opened or partially disassembled

Don't read me wrong. The seller should compensate you with a partial refund. All I'm saying in my previous late reply is it's between $1K and $10K.

Work it out with the seller !

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Man somehow always the victims fault. Lol it’s laughable. I should have done what? Are you seriously just looking for any possible angle to blame that somehow I should have done something more than pay $23000? FYI I wasn’t given the opportunity to inspect his handiwork nor did he have any hesitation or concern that gave me cause for concern. He later admitted to have been in a hurry. I’ll let you slide because it was really late lol

Not blaming you. Just a little friendly advice the next time you buy one to avoid unpleasant situations like this !

Here's what my engine, cheap compared to yours, arrived in.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by christiandk

The seller is an ******* and you should have made arrangements so that this did not happen. When you rely on other people **** happens. You were sloppy.

Move on - you are throwing good time after bad time - engine looks ok.

Good luck with the project.

How was I sloppy? Because I didn’t fly to the east coast to pack it myself? Engine looks ok? Lol I paid $23k it doesn’t look ok wtf is wrong with you?

Originally Posted by pmax

Don't read me wrong. The seller should compensate you with a partial refund. All I'm saying in my previous late reply is it's between $1K and $10K.

Work it out with the seller !


Not blaming you. Just a little friendly advice the next time you buy one to avoid unpleasant situations like this !

Here's what my engine, cheap compared to yours, arrived in.

Yeah looks perfect. So what was your involvement in packing your motor that way pmax?

[nathanbs]

I don’t get the few of you that blame me for the way he packed it. I have shipped thousands of not ten thousand things in my life and perhaps 10 times someone asked me to pack a specific way. Typically the concern is when the person packing and shipping doesn’t know the value of the item but that’s not the case here.

[al lkosmal]

My $.02. While it looks like an attempt was made by the seller to tie the engine down, the approach seems totally inadequate and the results back that up. I've shipped engines all over the world now and .....a crate is a must, with the engine supported and strapped down. It doesn't need to be pretty....just hell for stout. I also do not charge for the crating.....saves time & money in the long run to just do it right.



regards,
al

Al Kosmal
the x-faktory
koz@x-faktory.com
RGruppe #669
www.x-faktory.com

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Yep. A fair question to ask me would what would I do if I were the buyer. What I would do is what I suggested. I would go get a real repair quote, in writing, from a local builder. I would give the seller the opportunity to provide all needed parts for the repair at their cost along with my labor costs and +/-$1000 "diminished value" as he puts it.

Both the request that he take it back for a refund or he find another C3 case to replace the marred one are unrealistic. Plus this C3 case is nowhere near worthless with the cosmetic damage.

I will reiterate what I have said before. Act like a pissed off dick at someone and they will respond dickishly. Being right doesn't matter when you abuse someone in your righteousness. Be a decent human being and you will usually have someone who is decent and reasonable in return. Flash a knife at a guy and he's going to put up a shield because he feels he needs to protect himself. It's the way the world works.

Life is too short for me to walk around pissed off all the time with raised blood pressure losing sleep, etc. I was really pissed when I got that engine years ago. Today I don't care and have even opened a wholesale account selling to the guy I got that engine from.

If you re-read the email I sent him two of the options were for him to rebuild it or the second was to pay someone else to rebuild it. In neither of those options am I asking for additional compensation for the case. Problem is both of those are logistical nightmares and could end up pretty costly. I will entertain whichever option he chooses.
Regarding attorney or small claims which happens to be $10,000 here in CA I will cross that bridge when I get to it. If I’m not mistaken he could have to appear here in LA for trial.
If I were him like I said I would pay whatever it took to fix my mistake. That’s life. I have spent over $100,000 fixing a mistake I once made(non car related) and I’m not a rich guy. If you look at it from the perspective of if he were to give me $8-10k he’s still been compensated his $9800 for the rebuild plus an extra $2000 approx for his long block that he has had sitting around for who’s knows how many years. Much better than actually losing all your money and all of your time. For the record I never said case was worthless and if I were to get a new one the old one would belong to him. I’m not trying to be enriched greater than I started.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Yeah looks perfect. So what was your involvement in packing your motor that way pmax?

I simply requested pics of the crate and engine before shipping. If I noticed any issues in the crating then, I would have alerted the seller. Even with the crate, the shipper(s!) did their best damaging it as you can tell from the dislocated panel above but fortunately, the engine was untouched.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Really lousy deal, Nathan, and like other's have mentioned, amazingly poor packaging from the seller. A few years ago, I sold an engine for an experimental aircraft (engine weighed less than 100 pounds), and boxed it in a manner that it would have survived a shipwreck.

Yep, pretty big job to replace the oil return tubes. If it were me, I would use collapsible ones without hesitation (no shame in those, other than they are not what you paid for).

You've probably thought of this, but you could really clean up the gouging on the case by smoothing them out (with Dremmel, hand files, and sand paper) and then re-aging the spots with a chemical such as Navel Jelly.

It looks like the oil cooler is toast - might not leak now, but probably would in short order - not cheap.

Thank you for the good advice

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Nathan,
What I would do is irrelevant for a number of reasons, but in large part because I would never find myself in this position. Given your stance you need an attorney. Seriously. If there is no middle ground you can live with you need to sue the guy if he won't give you exactly what you want.

Since when have I said there’s no middle ground that I can live with. I paid $23k. I gave 4 options, 3 of which have very reasonable middle ground in my opinion

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Was insurance ever discussed? If not you’ve got very little to go on beyond moral ground.

As a vendor I insure the crap out of everything. I get complaints about my shipping rates almost every day. My response is always that I can knock $50 off shipping if they want their $5k shipment valued at $1000. They usually pick to insure.

It’s a tough one. I’ve got a cracked longblock in my barn from this exact same thing ten years ago. Shipper claimed poorly tied down and rejected the insurance claim. Seller blames shipper. I got a broken motor. Seller still sells here.

Yes.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Fed Ex would never pay $10k on a claim like that. Its not a total loss. Its not even close to a total loss. Realistically the seller should refund a grand or two and you should put it in your car.

Yes two for this one.

[Matt Monson]

Nathan,
In your anger you are being super defensive and hostile. I’m done. You find me unhelpful so I’m gonna shut up now.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Nathan, per my comment about hand files - there are fine files available that are very small and no thicker than a credit card (flexible); those work great for dressing marks in aluminum without removing lots of material (I use them all the time for smoothing wear marks in wing flap roller tracks, and so forth).

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Nathan,
In your anger you are being super defensive and hostile. I’m done. You find me unhelpful so I’m gonna shut up now.

Matt we didn’t see eye to eye on the situation with Esposito and we don’t on this either and that’s ok. I just don’t think that anyone that entered into an agreement or contract with someone where technically there should be no real risk that they should under any circumstance get less than they were promised. When restoring your porsche with a reputable restorer or buying/building an engine it should be no different than going to eat at an expensive restaurant or buying a sofa. Perhaps it’s because I am in the collision repair business and the emphasis is always to make the claimant or insured “whole”. We go to very great lengths to make this happen. If any of you were rear ended in your porsche and this happened to your restored engine in the process what would you expect when I was done with your car? Would you be ok with a shortcut expandable oil return tube or scarring on your engine? This should be no different of a scenario whether there’s insurance involved or not

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Nathan, per my comment about hand files - there are fine files available that are very small and no thicker than a credit card (flexible); those work great for dressing marks in aluminum without removing lots of material (I use them all the time for smoothing wear marks in wing flap roller tracks, and so forth).

Thanks again as this seems eminent