Motor damaged during shipping opinion wanted

[nathanbs]

This crap seems to be never ending lately. Now it’s my turn to get screwed or so it seems. I purchased a Carrera 3.0 long block for $13,000 this was to include shipping. It was disclosed that it had some broken head studs prior to the deal being made. Not knowing any qualified mechanics at the time and the seller was proclaiming to be an expert so I solicited him to see if he was interested in addressing the head studs. $9800 later my motor was ready to ship. I’m in it $22,800 at this point. Seller ships Fedex Frieght and motor arrived damaged. It appears that something may have struck the motor on one end on the valve cover. At this point the motor broke loose of some wood chalking that was held together with wood screws that snapped. The combination of the wood blocks and protruding sharp screws did some nice damage to the underside of the motor. All in all 2-3 oil return tubes damaged, oil sump plate destroyed, valve cover gouged, oil cooler gouged, and engine case gouged. Apparently no insurance was taken. So now for my question. What would you expect or think is a fair resolution to this situation? The motor was to go into a Carrera 3.0 that I’m restoring so the cosmetics are just as important as the mechanicals. So far the seller is offering to send me an oil sump plate, valve cover, pay for some expandable oil return tubes and other parts to be installed. My issue is that my case is gouged and looks like crap and I feel that it’s bogus to put expandable oil return tubes considering I paid to have the motor properly rebuilt using appropriate oil return tubes which would require quite a bit of disassembly at this point. I’m just pissed that I spent $23000 and I want what I paid for nothing more nothing less.

[Matt Monson]

Was insurance ever discussed? If not you’ve got very little to go on beyond moral ground.

As a vendor I insure the crap out of everything. I get complaints about my shipping rates almost every day. My response is always that I can knock $50 off shipping if they want their $5k shipment valued at $1000. They usually pick to insure.

It’s a tough one. I’ve got a cracked longblock in my barn from this exact same thing ten years ago. Shipper claimed poorly tied down and rejected the insurance claim. Seller blames shipper. I got a broken motor. Seller still sells here.

[nathanbs]

Initially he told me it was insured for $10,000 but when claim was denied due to no insurance he looked into it and admitted that he must have dropped the ball. Thing is I now know Fedex frieght doesnt even offer insurance on a “used” motor.

[juanbenae]

man O man, my heart aches for you. so much compromised. I hurt for you.

[pmax]

Leaving aside the "WTF did you not ship a $20K engine with insurance and in a crate ?", did you check if Fedex has default coverage ?

Good news is I believe the damages look cosmetic.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

Leaving aside the "WTF did you not ship a $20K engine with insurance and in a crate ?", did you check if Fedex has default coverage ?

Good news is I believe the damages look cosmetic.

No default coverage. Max that can be claimed per tariff and freight shipping regulations is like $0.50/lb or something ridiculous.
Cosmetic yes but cosmetics are important to me and this build. That’s like someone keyeing your car and me saying well at least it’s cosmetic. Problem is to properly address all of the cosmetic damage I’m well into or over $20,000 especially if I include a new case.

[nathanbs]

This what I emailed him over 24 hours ago without reply. “I’ve spent a lot of money and deserve to be made whole. I stepped up to spend the $23k or whatever it was, I want what I paid for. Maybe the easiest solution is to reset the clock and 1) send the motor back to you at your expense to be restored back to the condition I originally agreed to purchase and rebuild it to 2)you agree to pay someone else to do the same 3)I’ll send motor back you refund all monies and we move on or 4)likely the cheapest most realistic option is the $10k that fedex should be paying is paid to me via wire transfer and I will sort out the engine. Unfortunately all 3 options leave my engine case permanently scarred which is complete bull****.”

[Matt Monson]

Fed Ex would never pay $10k on a claim like that. Its not a total loss. Its not even close to a total loss. Realistically the seller should refund a grand or two and you should put it in your car.

[Matt Monson]

One other thing, always declare something like this as remanufactured. Its not a used engine. Its a newly remanufactured one.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

No default coverage. Max that can be claimed per tariff and freight shipping regulations is like $0.50/lb or something ridiculous.
Cosmetic yes but cosmetics are important to me and this build. That’s like someone keyeing your car and me saying well at least it’s cosmetic. Problem is to properly address all of the cosmetic damage I’m well into or over $20,000 especially if I include a new case.

Cosmetic damages which I assume can be repaired do not render the engine or the car for that matter worthless ! Besides, aren't these Carrera cases relatively rare ? This looks to me like a partial refund situation you need to work out with the seller who except for the boneheaded mistake of not having insurance doesn't seem to be "at fault" here. Anything more might be possible but you have a steeper wall to climb.

It's STILL a VERY nice looking engine. I'll be very happy to have that, scratches and all, in my car.

Sucks, yeah but good luck with this !

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Fed Ex would never pay $10k on a claim like that. Its not a total loss. Its not even close to a total loss. Realistically the seller should refund a grand or two and you should put it in your car.

How do you figure a grand or two? To install the oil return tubes it’s quite a bit of labor as the heads I think have to come off the one side I believe? What value do you put on the gouged case?

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

One other thing, always declare something like this as remanufactured. Its not a used engine. Its a newly remanufactured one.

The determining factor is the warranty, they craftily determined that there was no long term warranty which rendered the motor “used”. The tariff/freight refs allow I think $5/lb for new engines.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

Cosmetic damages which I assume can be repaired do not render the engine or the car for that matter worthless ! Besides, aren't these Carrera cases relatively rare ? This looks to me like a partial refund situation you need to work out with the seller who except for the boneheaded mistake of not having insurance doesn't seem to be "at fault" here. Anything more might be possible but you have a steeper wall to climb.

It's STILL a VERY nice looking engine. I'll be very happy to have that, scratches and all, in my car.

Sucks, yeah but good luck with this !

It’s the cost to repair the damages that’s the issue. I have a quote for well over $10k. Would you be happy to have it if you paid $23k? Especially for a motor without scratches when you made the deal? Not at fault for merely screwing a 300+ lb motor with wood screws? Two ratchet straps on a bare pallet without wood blocks and without screws would have limited the damage to the valve cover.

[nathanbs]

I just shipped a set of $23k Carrera GT seats to New York that the buyer paid $10k for as they were barely used. I preotected the living hell out of them and insured them for $15k. It’s just what you do to protect your ASSets.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

It’s the cost to repair the damages that’s the issue. I have a quote for well over $10k. Would you be happy to have it if you paid $23k? Especially for a motor without scratches when you made the deal?

A $10K+ refund would mean $10K+ for a rebuilt Carrera 3.0 engine which looks like a great deal given that's the engine you want. It's relatively rare, isn't it ? On the other hand, $1K sounds too low. Needs to be worked out.

Have you confirmed the damages are indeed cosmetic ?

Not at fault for merely screwing a 300+ lb motor with wood screws? Two ratchet straps on a bare pallet without wood blocks and without screws would have limited the damage to the valve cover.

Didn't know there were no straps. Yes, another boneheaded mistake then, this is surprising if the seller's an experienced one. There's no excuse for not having them. But, having said that, I always ask for pics of any shipment prior. You could have done that and perhaps avoided this.

[turbo owner]

Should have been in a box, I can't believe the seller wouldn't spend the $50 in materials it would have taken to do it right.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

A $10K+ refund would mean $10K+ for a rebuilt Carrera 3.0 engine which looks like a great deal given that's the engine you want. It's relatively rare, isn't it ? On the other hand, $1K sounds too low. Needs to be worked out.

Have you confirmed the damages are indeed cosmetic ?

To solve this from turning into me trying to get a carrera motor for half price I would prefer just to either have it fixed or paid to be fixed or all of my money back. I’m not trying to profit.
No the motor has not been opened or partially disassembled

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

But, having said that, I always ask for pics of any shipment prior. You could have done that and perhaps avoided this.

Man somehow always the victims fault. Lol it’s laughable. I should have done what? Are you seriously just looking for any possible angle to blame that somehow I should have done something more than pay $23000? FYI I wasn’t given the opportunity to inspect his handiwork nor did he have any hesitation or concern that gave me cause for concern. He later admitted to have been in a hurry. I’ll let you slide because it was really late lol

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

How do you figure a grand or two? To install the oil return tubes it’s quite a bit of labor as the heads I think have to come off the one side I believe? What value do you put on the gouged case?

You'll have to be the one to determine the level of devaluation that comes with a scarred-but-functional case. As for the oil return tubes: obviously the parts are cheap, and with a nice, clean engine sitting on a stand it's not a difficult or particularly time-consuming job.

That said, if you have any work performed at a different shop you'd be wise to have the builder acknowledge - in writing and in advance - that having the work performed elsewhere will have zero impact on whatever warranty he gave you on the engine, lest the engine grenade (or even something less severe) and both shops claim it was the other's fault and leaving you ... guess where?


_

[gearby]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

Should have been in a box, I can't believe the seller wouldn't spend the $50 in materials it would have taken to do it right.

+1
I plan on selling a motor in the future. Years ago, I was a contractor and still have all my tools. You can imagine the crate I'll be making.
Inadequately packing an expensive motor is like crossing the street without looking. There are a lot of idiots out there, are you really willing to put your fate in their hands?

[mattC2993]

Slapping an engine on a pallet is inadequate. Here is how my engine came from my builder. I certainly think the shipper is at fault here.